Ghost Crawler on twitter about priests.

Priest
It's been 4 days.

I don't get why people ignore this.

4 days.


it had being months actualy, because the concerns started out at beta, spreading through pre mop and now mop..

when will be the right time to complaint ? december ? patch 5.5 ?
You want data? Go dig through WOL. I did.

Play the beta. I did.

Try to raid with a high performance guild. I do.. or did.

Learn the fight? Impossible to learn more since I won't be seeing many progression fights. Something I've loved doing the last 6 or 7 years.

We're broken. Sure there are a few doing well, because the rest of their healing team is mediocre at best.

Toss us in with 5-6 other strong healers? We're scrapping not to be last... either spec... every fight.

Fact is it's either Reroll or go shadow. Not a nice place to be in seeing how we are the one class with TWO healing specs, neither of which are worth a damn.

we need a 15 percent flat buff to every spell, and a solid 15% to 30% holy concentration buff.

Start there.

Meanwhile if I decide I don't like this shadowpriesting thing, I'm going to take a few months off. Every teir is a gear reset anyway. That's probably the only thing that will get their attention.
come on guys. we had our fun and strengh and our melting faces moments in bc, wotlk and mid to end cata. i felt really bad for resto druids having to live with what they were dealt with all throughout cataclysm. every class will eventually get that hammer dropped from heaven to say enough is enough. it's our time to shame now. ret had their problems too. It may just be something we're doing wrong atm and judging our class having issues way too early in an expansion. no one has full malevolent or higher pvp gears atm and the same goes to not having full pve tier raid gears. mop has just been out 2 weeks and here you guys are moaning and b****ing about fix this fix that give me this give me that and so forth. maybe things will change for the class once we are epic out pve and pvp wise. JUST RELAX and get a massage with lemon tea with green mint leaves. (i prefer raspberries instead of lemon)
I think GC is great for the community but he seems to have lost touch with reality. I enjoy playing my priest and only wish that Blizz would rethink our current design.

Give disc Divine Hymn back
Let healing spells trigger evangelism
Rethink Rapture


If healing spells triggered Evangelism it'd make my life so much easier. I was talking to my mate and he said "it just seems like too much !@#$ to manage" when I mentioned how Smite/Holy Fire/Penance stacked Evangelism. It's too hard to manage. I don't ever want to use Penance for DPS because it makes it harder to quickly stack grace on a target which needs a heal.

If it stacked from heals I would actually use it (using it in raids feels utterly impossible, since I have to Smite to get it up, which craps all over my healing) and probably enjoy the mechanic a lot as well. It would seriously make it just that much easier and more enjoyable.

(I don't particularly want Divine Hymn back as it was dapper as !@#$ as Disc, but I would like Rapture to be looked at seriously).
I'll be first to admit I'm not 90 yet on my priest, who was always my main.

Playing around in beta made levelling her a non-priority so far this expansion.

I was holy through BC and early wrath, had to switch to shadow for a while in wrath (more healers than dps) and back to holy - and switched to disc and holy in Cata.

One of the issues I didn't feel was addressed properly, but instead duct taped to shut people up quickly, was the damage dealt by disc. And I agreed, it was too high at lower levels, scaling outrageously in pvp up through wrath levels.

However - the new build for disc doesn't give AA/Atonement as optional - it's baked in.

It's the most efficient single target heal mana wise.

And yet, because of the damage nerf also applying to Atonement HEALS, it is now inadequate/sub-par at best, and completely pointless in many situations.

It was like seeing rust on a car and slapping shiny paint over it to silence the pvp outcry, ignoring that the underlying problem is still there.

The underlying problem as I see it is that damage that does EQUAL healing will always be either overpowered in pvp situations (2 spells for the price of one!) or underpowered in PvE (to balance pvp, those two have to add TOGETHER to become the total - which produces inadequate PvE heals, as they're cut by 50%.) It wouldn't be as much of an issue except we're horribly mana inefficient - and this guts an efficient healing school into half a healing spec.

Have it hit half as hard. I don't care. But in PvE, have the heal hit at FULL capacity, regardless of if it's direct or indirect.

That's not a complete fix by FAR, but it sure wouldn't hurt, and might make AA/Atonement more useful instead of everyone trying to work around it to utilize SS and renew.

I don't think the goal of baking in AA/Atonement to disc was to have it be the weak link in the spec.
10/06/2012 01:06 AMPosted by Glaius
come on guys. we had our fun and strengh and our melting faces moments in bc, wotlk and mid to end cata. i felt really bad for resto druids having to live with what they were dealt with all throughout cataclysm. every class will eventually get that hammer dropped from heaven to say enough is enough. it's our time to shame now. ret had their problems too. It may just be something we're doing wrong atm and judging our class having issues way too early in an expansion. no one has full malevolent or higher pvp gears atm and the same goes to not having full pve tier raid gears. mop has just been out 2 weeks and here you guys are moaning and b****ing about fix this fix that give me this give me that and so forth. maybe things will change for the class once we are epic out pve and pvp wise. JUST RELAX and get a massage with lemon tea with green mint leaves. (i prefer raspberries instead of lemon)


I think everyone is more worked up than normal because both of our healing specs are having issues. Usually if we are having trouble with one healing spec we can count on the other to carry us through until our favorite spec is tweaked. Right now it appears that both holy and disc are both in bad shape so it has priests more worried than normal.
Maybe it isn't that priests feel underpowered it's the other healers that are a little overtuned, and we're where things should be at (a.k.a. nerfbat time: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=93082)
10/06/2012 12:20 PMPosted by Taheraliel
Maybe it isn't that priests feel underpowered it's the other healers that are a little overtuned, and we're where things should be at (a.k.a. nerfbat time: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=93082)


I never like asking for other classes to be nerfed I would rather see priest buffed a little. I guess you would have to weigh whether or not those other healing classes are making content trivial or not. Blizzard is usually pretty quick to step in if a certain class makes much of their content autopilot.
If looking at effective healing output and overhealing is not a good way to judge healing, what metric do they suggest?

Unicorn fluffy feeling index?
10/06/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Hemorrhagic
Maybe it isn't that priests feel underpowered it's the other healers that are a little overtuned, and we're where things should be at (a.k.a. nerfbat time: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=93082)


I never like asking for other classes to be nerfed I would rather see priest buffed a little. I guess you would have to weigh whether or not those other healing classes are making content trivial or not. Blizzard is usually pretty quick to step in if a certain class makes much of their content autopilot.


General rule of thumb is that if something is tuned or broken such that it helps a player it will be hotfixed ASAP; if something is tuned or broken such that it hurts players it might get addressed eventually.
Here is the Tweet on GC's wall

@Ghostcrawler healing priests are DIRE in raids, completly ignored our concerns in beta saying it will be fine, devs sold us down the river

Here is his response

@galvangar Priests got a lot of raiding use this week. Why do you feel ineffective?

Disgusting and shameful


When I read his response, I got the impression that he was asking galvangar for details about his experience. I didn't pick up any negative vibe from the response.
Yea, i have no idea how to compete with most healers currently. Prepotting, perfect uptime on rapture with 11k+ spirit, perfect timing of Spirit shell, and making use of archangel i still fall behind our other healers.

Playing a disc class perfectly in a raid is not as easy as most people think and to still fall behind other healers doing so just amazes me. Imagine setting up your raid so that every group is within range of PoH and still failing to healers using smart heals. Drives me insane i have to put so much work with the RL coordinating where groups should go so that PoH hits and yet still get demolished by other healers.
I like my Priest. It was my first toon and I have been playing since vanilla. I rolled a priest to heal and I have not been a holy priest consistantly for years now. The healing priest was tossed out when the healing pally was brought in. Two healing trees, cloth armour and the weakest heals using mega amounts of mana of all the healing classes and we don't have a problem! I don't expect the healing priest to be fixed, its now so many years since we were really effective. I did what Ghostcrawler suggested many years ago and rolled a druid and shammy. It can't be the the lack of feedback to the developers there have been so many threads over the years, well thought out and pinpointing problems, and all the developers produce is yet another nerf.
yeah its pretty bad and pvp is worse lol
Here is the Tweet on GC's wall

@Ghostcrawler healing priests are DIRE in raids, completly ignored our concerns in beta saying it will be fine, devs sold us down the river

Here is his response

@galvangar Priests got a lot of raiding use this week. Why do you feel ineffective?

Disgusting and shameful


When I read his response, I got the impression that he was asking galvangar for details about his experience. I didn't pick up any negative vibe from the response.


Let's also take a step back here and breath.

I'm willing to give GC a bit of time. This is, after all, the FIRST week of raiding. Folks probably took what they can, what was on hand, and I'm willing to believe that not a lot of raidleads knew how bad priests were exactly.

You need to wait until the NEXT week when there's raid fresh, raidleads know, and there are probably more choices to pick and choose from and see how many priests are now sat.

Of course, I got sat halfway through the 1st week the moment we downed everything and is wiping to Elegon. Raid realized they needed to drop a healer and bam. We have now no healing priests in that 25man.

Yay...so I'm not sure if I'll get in next raid, period.

It is a little more serious this time around because as said above, BOTH our specs are horribly at the moment so we don't exactly have a 'fallback' spec we can play.
[quote]
Data data data. He cannot make bricks without clay.


The clay is being obliterated by everything around it.
When I read his response, I got the impression that he was asking galvangar for details about his experience. I didn't pick up any negative vibe from the response.


The response in and of itself wasn't rude or negative, but in the context of having had ENDLESS posts during beta, and now during live, it does come off as dismissive and unresponsive to our concerns.
Oh good, another case of fun vs. numbers. It's even better when someone says "those numbers don't matter," doesn't tell us which numbers do (or they're only available to the developers, who will counter everything with, "we have better numbers," but never reveal them), changes which numbers "matter" (priests aren't doing well vs. lots of priests raided this week, which doesn't have a damn thing to do with how well they do), discounts any experiences people might be having, and then they just do whatever anyway. The communicating and expressing of one's frustrations, lack of fun, discontent, etc. is lost, and thus communicating becomes irrelevant.
10/07/2012 06:37 PMPosted by Erda
The response in and of itself wasn't rude or negative, but in the context of having had ENDLESS posts during beta, and now during live, it does come off as dismissive and unresponsive to our concerns.


Everything you read is run through an obstacle course of filters based on personal views and biases.
10/08/2012 07:02 AMPosted by Nixxe
Everything you read is run through an obstacle course of filters based on personal views and biases.


So is everything everyone writes and everything everyone expects others to get out of what they write (regardless of what they'll actually get).

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