DoC and HotW - Boomkin Maths

Druid
Hi all, I have been playing with DoC and HotW getting ready for raiding this week and I am having a hard time understanding the value of DoC.

Dream of Cenarius
Here are some illustrative numbers for DoC - btw, I must be off somewhere because they don't make much sense to me:

assume Eclipsed MF/SF hits for ~6,000 per tick + 6,000 initial dmg
Eclipsed MF/SF = At my gear level I get 9 ticks on an NG'ed MF/SF

Thats 60,000 dmg total and my NG'ed GCD is 1.15s = 52,173 DPET

If I cast a NS'ed HT right before I apply MF/SF, I get:

Eclipsed, DoC'ed MF/SF at 9,000 per tick + 9,000 initial dmg = 90,000 total dmg but my effective cast time is now 1.15s (MF/SF GCD) + 1.15s/2 (taking 1/2 of NS'ed HT GCD) = total effective cast time of 1.725s = 52,173 DPET?

What am I missing here - it is a DPET wash under the most favorable rotational scenario (NS'ed HT) and if I have to hard cast a HT (2.25s base with haste, 1.95s NG'ed HT) it looks like a significant DPET loss

People are saying that DoC is simming higher than the other talents, I just don't understand how tbh.


Heart of the Wild


I played around with this a bit. I "get" the utility and such, plus the 6% stat buff.

The way it plays out with my gear, HotW adds ~600 Int to me - @~3dps per Int point = ~1,800 raid buffed DPS. That is static. When I go kitty, do a weapon change and pop HotW I can get sustained (unbuffed) dps of 33,000 over the 45s window. Since my base unbuffed dps (no CDs, just rotation) is ~ 30,000, it is an increase of ~10% for that 45s.

Raid buffed, my dps (per WrathCalcs) is around 46,000 (best case scenario - excludes lvl 90 talent dps). Since HotW is a 6 min CD lets assume a 6 min boss fight. That gives a dps increase of 600 dps (10% increase to 46,000 base dps during a 45s window over a 6 min fight)

Putting them together: 1,800 static + 600 HotW role change = 2,400 dps.

As a comparison, WrathCalcs is showing Incarnation at 2,200 dps, FoN at 2,800 dps, SotF at 2,100 dps and NV at 2,100 dps (also for reference WrathCalcs showing HotW at 2,000 dps).

I understand that WrathCalcs may need some tweaks but I'm confused about DoC and why NV or HoTW are not higher dps than some of the lvl 60 "throughput" tier.

<3 PP
10/04/2012 05:42 AMPosted by Pippilonger
When I go kitty, do a weapon change and pop HotW I can get sustained (unbuffed) dps of 33,000 over the 45s window. Since my base unbuffed dps (no CDs, just rotation) is ~ 30,000, it is an increase of ~10% for that 45s.


Really? I find I hover around the 75k self buffed on dummies for its entire duration, with my int staff too.

10/04/2012 05:42 AMPosted by Pippilonger
People are saying that DoC is simming higher than the other talents, I just don't understand how tbh


My best guess would be that because it's the best scaling talent with the 4p bonus. Right now I'm doing just under what I do with INC/NV with it, so the extra 2 secs on dots would probably give it that boost it needs to overtake them.
Velaniz-what rotation do you use in kitty for hotw? 75k would be nice :)
Velaniz-what rotation do you use in kitty for hotw? 75k would be nice :)


All we have in cat form is Mangle Rake and Bite =P So Keep rake up, mangle for combo points and Bite with 50 cp and 50%+ energy.
10/04/2012 07:23 AMPosted by Nagoto
Bite with 50 cp


50 CP BITES! Oh man... 210,000,000 Crits!
10/04/2012 07:27 AMPosted by Earthreaver
Bite with 50 cp


50 CP BITES! Oh man... 210,000,000 Crits!


Obvious typo is obvious =P
Yeah what Nagato said. And also,

- Try not to mangle at 4 cp when you know you'll be refreshing rake soon, but only if you know you won't get energy capped.

- Try to squeeze in a rake in the last 2 seconds of your hotw.

- Don't shift out of form to hardcast while your energy builds up, it's not worth the gcd because the auto attacks are pretty godly too
I've been doing Mooncat and so far I'm loving it. It cures my itch to play feral. Going with Rake everything, FB at 5 CP + 80 Energy, refresh rake when I leave. 350k FB crits makes me so, so happy.

Here are some logs for Stone Guard and some Feng wipes if anyone is curious:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3o89ha68x8v300fu/
10/04/2012 07:51 AMPosted by Nagoto


50 CP BITES! Oh man... 210,000,000 Crits!


Obvious typo is obvious =P


I dont see you typo very often, so I had to jump on it! :P
So it looks like I am very confused. The DoC math doesn't make sense and for the life of me I can't get my dps on a Raider's Training Dummy to go above 38K over the 45s that HoTW is up.

My autoattacks were hitting for 8,500 regular (17,000 crit)
Rake - 20,500 (41,000 crit)
Mangle - 21,500 (43,000 crit)
5pt Bite @50 energy - 185,000 crit

My rotation is: Rake, then Mangle spam until 5 cp and Bite at 5 cp + 50 energy. Refreshing Rake before it falls off.

pretty simple and nowhere near 75K - were u popping CDs/trinks during that 75K HoTW?

What am I missing???
10/04/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Pippilonger
were u popping CDs/trinks during that 75K HoTW?


Definitely not any cds, besides hotw itself, and I guess my trinks were proccing, although they wouldn't make such a difference.

I also notice alot of my moves hit nearly twice as hard as yours. My lowest auto attack hits for 11k, the highest crits are in the 30k range, my average ferocious bite crit is 300k. I don't know why this is because you gear is very similiar to mine.

Edit: Hmm, it's possible hotw scales far better with your intellect/spellpower as opposed to agi if you're non-feral, try doing it with your balance staff. Don't have an agi staff myself so I can't test.
My rotation is: Rake, then Mangle spam until 5 cp and Bite at 5 cp + 50 energy. Refreshing Rake before it falls off.

Just a minor point, but you should be doing mangle, rake, mangle spam + bites.

For weapon switching, I *believe* you just want to use the highest ilvl 2h that you have.

For weapon switching, I *believe* you just want to use the highest ilvl 2h that you have.


Hmmm I've tried it both ways (weapon switching and without) and it doesnt seem to make much of a difference cause both of my weaps are 463.

For our MV run today I just took Nature's Vigil because it's pretty straightforward and I didnt have to worry about getting into melee range (although being chained to a melee is ridiculously annoying on that fight).

I would like to take DoC for the Feng fight (we got him to 17% today) because there is a ton of dmg going out the whole fight and dots are nice for the epicenters but as I laid out above, I really don't understand how DoC is an actual DPS increase. Maybe someone can explain how it is?

-PP
Any ideas on DoC math - it seems to be a DPET loss

-PP
10/05/2012 12:19 PMPosted by Eluial
My rotation is: Rake, then Mangle spam until 5 cp and Bite at 5 cp + 50 energy. Refreshing Rake before it falls off.

Just a minor point, but you should be doing mangle, rake, mangle spam + bites.

For weapon switching, I *believe* you just want to use the highest ilvl 2h that you have.


Seeing as the bleed damage multiplier was removed from Mangle, I don't see any reason to start with it apart from putting Infected Wounds on a moving target. Am I missing something?

Also, the damage conversion does in fact scale better off of the spell power than throwing on an agi staff. Weapon switching during HotW is good for Feral druids, but bad for Balance druids.
10/06/2012 10:32 AMPosted by Melenia
Seeing as the bleed damage multiplier was removed from Mangle, I don't see any reason to start with it apart from putting Infected Wounds on a moving target. Am I missing something?

Nope I'm just derping. Forgot they removed that.

10/06/2012 10:32 AMPosted by Melenia
Also, the damage conversion does in fact scale better off of the spell power than throwing on an agi staff. Weapon switching during HotW is good for Feral druids, but bad for Balance druids.

So for balance with HotW, cat paw damage isn't scaling off of weapon damage like it does for ferals?

So for balance with HotW, cat paw damage isn't scaling off of weapon damage like it does for ferals?


I would assume not, since as feral I've been weapon switching for HotW since we don't get any Weapon DPS -> SP conversion.
Just looking at the AP, a 363 agi weapon gives 71k total AP (in my gear), and a 450 caster weapon gives 61k AP.
Heyas I did some more HotW testing with weapon switching. I swapped from 463 Staff (Greatstaff of Righteousness) to 463 Spear of Xuen.

It looks like the caster weapons are a much larger dps increase (8-9K dps) than the feral weapon under HotW. That is strange because with HotW my AP was 73.5K with caster weapon and 79K with Agi weap. So higher AP with Agi weapon but lower dps?

-PP

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