Why are tanks allowed to roll on dps gear?

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
In heroics if someone specs as say a tank Paladin, they can roll on dps gear... that seems really retarded. I've had a ton of gear stolen because of this.
Why are dps allowed to roll on tank gear?

The system is broken, and sometimes people are jerks. That's why.
I'm just saying it could easily be fixed =D
The system isn't broken, it works as intended.

People are allowed to roll need on items they need. It has nothing to do with what items they need currently. A plate DPS might be in your dungeon, but his MS might be prot, he just doesn't have the gear yet. He needs the tanking items too. You get an instant queue for the dungeon while he has to wait 40 minutes.

It happens, and Blizzard is okay with it and always say they don't enforce MS > OS.

You can make the same argument of why I could roll on a pair of shoulders from a boss that I already have equipped. Why don't they make me unable to roll need if I already have the item, so that other clothy in the dungeon can roll need over me. But what happens if I NEED two sets of gear for two separate specs. Different specs often value different stats, and it's a huge time/money burden to have to reforge every time you need to swap, especially if you need to swap in the middle of a raid.

If you want to enforce MS > OS then run with guildies. It's as simple as that.
The horse is dead man, stop beating it.
10/04/2012 08:10 AMPosted by Vargun
The horse is dead man, stop beating it.
Nice try but the forums will never be rid of people rehashing the same arguments (even when that same argument is also currently on the front page).

People have entitlement issues, and come to the forums to complain about it.
If tanks couldn't roll on DPS gear they needed, they'd stop queuing after valor cap every week entirely. Do you really want to go back to waiting an hour for a group?

Blame Blizzard for making our damage output terrible again and then forcing 20+ dailies down our throats that we need to do to get Valor gear.
10/04/2012 08:15 AMPosted by Farabee
If tanks couldn't roll on DPS gear they needed, they'd stop queuing after valor cap every week entirely. Do you really want to go back to waiting an hour for a group?
Not to mention that tanks usually need OS DPS gear too for raiding, and you can bet your a$$ 99% of tanks are going to roll on the DPS gear they need (and not tell the forums about it), and definitely won't trade an instant queue for a 40 minute queue just to queue up as the proper role they need loot for.
99% of tanks? This was the first tank out of ANY tank I've grouped with in random heroics to need a dps item =)

He said he doesn't want to wait the long queue as dps and was dps main spec so he queue's as tank. Doesn't seem fair.
Maybe you just didn't run with tanks previously who were in the dungeon looking for DPS loot at the time and also had a DPS item they needed drop.

Do you honestly think that a tank with an instant queue would queue up as DPS with a 40 minute queue just so he could honor the made up MS > OS loot system that entitled players seem to think is intended by Blizz when it is not?

I am not thrilled when I lose an int item to a healer, I'm not thrilled when I lose an int item to another caster. I have to compete with healers and other clothies on gear, you have to compete with other plate wearers on gear. That is what is intended and that's how it works. Why should the one plate DPS or plate tank get dibs on loot while cloth casters and healers have to compete for theirs?

It's how it is and it's how it will always be. Blizzard designs rolls around type of loot not MS over OS. People will almost always do what is most convenient for them, and that includes tanks queuing as tanks even though they need DPS gear. If you want to enforce your own loot system like MS > OS which is not intended by Blizzard, then run a guild group or form a pug group and mandate the loot rules.

Some raids use DKP, some raids feel that no matter what tanks should get the first selection of loot over others on bosses. Those are different loot rules than MS > OS, why are any of them less valid? Why aren't you complaining that Blizz isn't implementing DKP or tanks first loot rolls because some raids do that just like some raids do MS > OS. If you want to enforce a system that is not the intended system then you have to make your own group. LFG will always be based on type of loot, and if you are able to equip it you should be able to roll on it.
10/04/2012 08:10 AMPosted by Loktronotron
The system isn't broken, it works as intended.


Rogues can need on Armsmaster's Sealed Locket. Of course it isn't broken! Fool of me, didn't know strength is so useful for them!
10/04/2012 08:49 AMPosted by Imyourtank
The system isn't broken, it works as intended.


Rogues can need on Armsmaster's Sealed Locket. Of course it isn't broken! Fool of me, didn't know strength is so useful for them!
This isn't the question posed in this thread. This isn't the system we are talking about. OP is complaining about MS > OS vs. general need vs greed, NOT classes being able to need on items they shouldn't. You brought that item up in another thread, and I agreed with you that needs seem to be broken at the moment. Rogues can roll on strength, hunters can roll on things they can't use, I've been able to roll on a few mail items. That is not intended and most likely will be fixed.

The point of this thread and the idea brought by the OP is that MS > OS isn't being enforced and thus the system is broken. That is just plain wrong though, since Blizzard's stance is that MS > OS is NOT their default looting system. If you want your own system, you need to make your own group and enforce it.

Stop trying to bring up points that have nothing to do with the topic to try to back up your point.

Stop trying to bring up points that have nothing to do with the topic to try to back up your point.


People are strawmen and politicians when it comes to this. They complain about MS>OS and in the same breath they complain about classes rolling on things they can't use and lump them into being the same problem, convincing people their MS>OS argument is even more valid. Two entirely different issues.
I agree on OP

If you don't want long queues, roll a healer or a tank....boom..problem solved
So, there's only 1 2ndary stat tanks don't want, it's spirit

Haste, Crit, Hit, Exp, Mastery, dodge, parry, are all tank items.

There's theorcrafting for every stat to be high priority for some tanks, for instance, Brewmasters have haste as their 3rd highest 2ndary, right behind Parry capped exp, and hit.

Basically, with the changes to AM, and resource generation for some tanks, Every stat can realistically be a tank stat besides spirit (and of course corssing over agi/str)
I agree on OP

If you don't want long queues, roll a healer or a tank....boom..problem solved
You said you agreed with OP but then contradicted OP? Huh?

The point is that the tank rolled tank for shorter queues, even if he is looking for DPS items he's still running as a tank (which gives everyone shorter queues but him especially), and OP is upset that his tank rolled on a DPS item which he needed.
10/04/2012 10:03 AMPosted by Loktronotron
The point is that the tank rolled tank for shorter queues, even if he is looking for DPS items he's still running as a tank (which gives everyone shorter queues but him especially), and OP is upset that his tank rolled on a DPS item which he needed.


That the tank rolled on an item that had stats that benefit a Tank and DPS*
I'm going to assume the OP has some credence to his original rant in that the item would only be used if the tank was in his OS DPS set. I get that some items can work for both DPS or Tanking depending on fight, but for the most part most "tanking" pieces will be better than most "DPS" pieces for a tank. Big exception being something like Alysrazor in FL where tanks rolled in with DPS trinkets and items to slap birds around.

Either way, the argument of MS > OS not being enforced = a broken system is stupid, and people that make that argument don't understand Blizzard's stance on it. Many people have many different kinds of loot systems for their own groups (DKP, tanks first, MS > OS, FFA etc.) so saying one is better than another and MUST be enforced or else the game is broken is pretty single-minded and entitled.
Blizzard does not care about you personally. It's literally not personal - they don't care about anybody personally. They care about the player base as a whole, and the systems that serve said player base.

One such system is the random dungeon finder. The purpose of the random dungeon finder is to get as many people into groups for dungeons as quickly and conveniently as possible. The purpose is not to get any particular person geared up as quickly and conveniently as possible - if that happens, fine, but it's not a priority.

That means that anything that gets people to move into short queue roles, like tanking, from the long queue roles like DPS, is good for the system. Thus, they'll let tanks keep rolling on dps gear, because otherwise the tanks would leave the tank queue and join the dps queue, which is bad for the system. That you, personally, would rather wait in a long line to get a group as long as you don't have to compete for loot with the tank is irrelevant. Remember, Blizzard does not care about you personally.

The random dungeon finder was made to get people into groups quickly and conveniently. Period. Your loot preferences would interfere with that, so they are thrown under the bus.
What is DPS gear? Mastery/Haste? That could be an upgrade for a paladin. Crit/Hit gear might be an upgrade for a monk.

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