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Its not about length its about type of content, you are reading peoples posts and then responding to things they didn't say.


It's called reading between the lines. Would you be ok with daily dungeon caps on rep implemented in a way that was mutually exclusive with other daily rep, (i.e. set amount of rep per day, regardless of source) - yet dungeon based rep had 2/3 of the cap of daily rep?

So, if I can get 1000 rep per day from dailies, you can get 666 rep per day from dungeons.

This leaves dailies as the most competitive option, either as a replacement or supplement to your dungeon rep. But it will take you 1/3 longer if you choose dungeons alone.


Honestly if they made the daily rep from dungeons = to the rep of dailies so one would not be faster than the other and it was completely up to style of play I would be for that. Your still suggesting incentives to MAKE people do dailies. If it was = then it would really be about choice. Seems like your reading between the lines makes you know that most people dont like dailies so would chose another = option.

To be clear I dont have a problem with rep grinds as I have many exalted factions on my main who I played since bc. I just dont like valor gear and crafting patterns to be gated by them. If mounts and tabards and more prestige items existed for people to show off they put the time in I would be in support of this.

I did the neatherwing and neatherray grind in bc and I didnt want them to give out these mounts more easily to others as I was proud that I had obtained these items, but me grinding these mounts did not impact others spending their badges of justice that the earned in raids and heroics.

If valor gear and patterns were NOT rep gated I would say NO rep from heroics cause I think the mounts and other vanity items coming from rep are just fine to earn exclusively from dailies and not from dungeons. This shows off a lvl of accomplishment for grinding a rep to exalted but does not impact gear progression of raiders who earn valor in raids.
10/07/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Shead
If you aren't interested in an immersive online game, then you are playing the wrong game. Again, perhaps you'd be more interested in Diablo III where you can dungeon grind your heart out.

Funny, I was going to suggest the same thing, only the other way around.

WoW is the Blizzard game that offers guilds, that encourages stable raid teams, that has 10 and 25 player PVE content, that puts a premium on group play, and has an incredible ecosystem of tools and information and community around raiding. This is the area where WoW truly blows away its competitors. That's why I'm here.

Dailies seem like a much better fit for D3, where they didn't even bother with guilds, where no group is larger than 4 people, and where there's no reason for sustained cooperation.

Finally, as to immersion, when I want that I'll play an excellent single player game. That's no knock on the extremely talented artists & designers at Blizzard, but there are limits to what you can do while supporting the requirements of a MMO, that a single player game is not restricted by and therefore can deliver a much more immersive, much more cohesive story telling experience and environment.


WoW could make a game around raiding, where everyone gets max level characters and everything is about comp and performance and group play, but they tied it to the concepts of an MMO. It's tied to a world, with lore, that you level up in via questing. Questing is just part of how this game is played; these daily activities give me the feeling that there is danger and something going on here in Pandaria.

I don't know your gaming experience, but 5 man play in this game is trite and meaningless. In all honestly, the dailies ARE more challenging and interesting than 5 mans. I really challenge why people are putting dungeons on a pedestal. If anything, I'd die the rep gains to raiding; if you are raiding and killing bosses then you get rep - and fast, say 2.5k per boss. To me, that's rewarding challenge and in the style of the things you describe about the game you like.

These rep rewards are not a precursor to raiding, they are a parrallel path and need to be managed on a time horizon consistent with parrallelism. Getting this gear is not something you do before raiding, it's something you work on at the same time as raiding.
well the monk class seems to be a lil OP .. i tryed fighting a monk with my level 57 rogue and the monk was level 54. i have all boa gear so there shouldnt be a reason why this monk had owned me the way he did.. i call that OP or rogues these days got screwed ..
10/06/2012 04:19 AMPosted by Tomie


You guys got it so wrong it's not even funny.
Here's my problem- I love raiding/dungeons. I hate questing. I have Several High level toons(1 -90, 9-85+'s) I have not started leveling any other toons because i'm too busy doing Dailies to unlock the gear I need to show up to a raid prepared. The dailies take forever to complete and more importantly I Hate doing them!!!! Let me say it again-I STRONGLY dislike Dailies!

I never had a problem running with friends in 5 man content. Never. And if my friends weren't on or wanted nothing to do with a dungeon I wanted/needed, there's this nifty tool called "Dungeon Finder" that puts a group together for me....most amazing thing ya ever saw lol.

I can not understand for the life of me why you guys would attach VP/JP gear to Dailies??? I am not asking for the gear to be handed to us! I don't mind doing a lot of dungeons to EARN my VP/JP gear. I really don't mind. I DO mind having to Quest so that I can Raid. And not only do I have to do it on one toon, I also have to do all those dailies on my other toons if I wish to raid with more than one toon. How ridiculous is that?!

And not to bring dedicated Pvper's into this but... How come a Pvper can just jump right in and start Pvping? Buy/make a FULL CRAFTED set and jump right in and start having fun in BG's/arena. Hell, they don't even need to buy gear, they can just hop right on in and "wing it " until they get some good gear. I am not saying make Pvper's do dailies before they can PVP cause that would just be Stupid and ridiculous!

Finally, There's nothing wrong with dailies. To the many people out there who enjoy them, more power to ya! I hope everyone of you have many hours of enjoyment doing them!!! But dailies should be a way to make gold and earn the some of the awesome cosmetic gear(mounts/pets/tabards/vanity items) this game has to offer. They should not be the only way to obtain DUNGEON gear!

Dailies should be a Option and not forced onto us! I'm not lazy, I just despise questing/dailies! And there's only so much time in a day!!! /end rant


You can gear up completely through dungeons. You don't need to do a single daily if you don't want to. Heroics give 463 gear which is adequate for both LFR and Normal mode Raiding. You then proceed to gear up through those two available venues. There is absolutely no requirement (unless it's being placed arbitrarily by yourself or your guild - in which case it's on you/them and up to you to decide if it's worth it) to do dailies. There are multiple paths of progression available for PvE and none of them are mandatory.

Dungeons - Scenarios - Heroics - LFR/Normal - Heroic

Dialies that award Valor and rep - Gear available at Honored and Revered with factions.

See that there ^ two different routes of progression, neither of which is mandatory. If you choose to partake in both that is your CHOICE, not Blizzard forcing you to do so.

EDIT: Additionally, the choice to play and attempt to gear multiple characters is also your choice, Blizzard shouldn't base progression balance around people having multiple characters because not everyone enjoys having multiple characters and would prefer not running out of stuff to do in 1/10th the time because they don't have every class they want to level and play.


I sort of remember the gear being able to buy with the shinny stuff....Let me think..... OH yeah gold not Valor come on blizz rep gear for valor doesnt make any sence at all your taking steps int eh wrong direction again. Please look around at all the happy players spending hours of drab and the fact you have forced them into more hours of drab by lowering the valor you get for doing anything. You say you want people out and about but all you do is for them to do is grind dungueons scenarios or dailies for anything and thats on one toon.

Last customer rep I talked to hasnt played the game sence BC. Does that in your own tell you something.


Its not about length its about type of content, you are reading peoples posts and then responding to things they didn't say.


It's called reading between the lines. Would you be ok with daily dungeon caps on rep implemented in a way that was mutually exclusive with other daily rep, (i.e. set amount of rep per day, regardless of source) - yet dungeon based rep had 2/3 of the cap of daily rep?

So, if I can get 1000 rep per day from dailies, you can get 666 rep per day from dungeons.

This leaves dailies as the most competitive option, either as a replacement or supplement to your dungeon rep. But it will take you 1/3 longer if you choose dungeons alone.


Yes, now you get it! This is exactly what I want. Blizzard wants people out in the world doing dailies, okay fine, but give me an option exactly like that, make it even longer than what you described for dungeon grinding for all I care and my complaint would be completely resolved. I would have my option back, you would have people out in the world doing dailies since they would be the most efficient. Everyone wins


It's called reading between the lines. Would you be ok with daily dungeon caps on rep implemented in a way that was mutually exclusive with other daily rep, (i.e. set amount of rep per day, regardless of source) - yet dungeon based rep had 2/3 of the cap of daily rep?

So, if I can get 1000 rep per day from dailies, you can get 666 rep per day from dungeons.

This leaves dailies as the most competitive option, either as a replacement or supplement to your dungeon rep. But it will take you 1/3 longer if you choose dungeons alone.


Honestly if they made the daily rep from dungeons = to the rep of dailies so one would not be faster than the other and it was completely up to style of play I would be for that. Your still suggesting incentives to MAKE people do dailies. If it was = then it would really be about choice. Seems like your reading between the lines makes you know that most people dont like dailies so would chose another = option.

To be clear I dont have a problem with rep grinds as I have many exalted factions on my main who I played since bc. I just dont like valor gear and crafting patterns to be gated by them. If mounts and tabards and more prestige items existed for people to show off they put the time in I would be in support of this.

I did the neatherwing and neatherray grind in bc and I didnt want them to give out these mounts more easily to others as I was proud that I had obtained these items, but me grinding these mounts did not impact others spending their badges of justice that the earned in raids and heroics.

If valor gear and patterns were NOT rep gated I would say NO rep from heroics cause I think the mounts and other vanity items coming from rep are just fine to earn exclusively from dailies and not from dungeons. This shows off a lvl of accomplishment for grinding a rep to exalted but does not impact gear progression of raiders who earn valor in raids.


Yea, but making them equal in rep rewards isn't fair as the dungeon already provides other rewards. You need to adjust downward the rep gain from dungeons to account for these other rewards to make the activities equal in whole, not just equal in rep.
10/07/2012 11:21 AMPosted by Firestyle

Funny, I was going to suggest the same thing, only the other way around.

WoW is the Blizzard game that offers guilds, that encourages stable raid teams, that has 10 and 25 player PVE content, that puts a premium on group play, and has an incredible ecosystem of tools and information and community around raiding. This is the area where WoW truly blows away its competitors. That's why I'm here.

Dailies seem like a much better fit for D3, where they didn't even bother with guilds, where no group is larger than 4 people, and where there's no reason for sustained cooperation.

Finally, as to immersion, when I want that I'll play an excellent single player game. That's no knock on the extremely talented artists & designers at Blizzard, but there are limits to what you can do while supporting the requirements of a MMO, that a single player game is not restricted by and therefore can deliver a much more immersive, much more cohesive story telling experience and environment.


WoW could make a game around raiding, where everyone gets max level characters and everything is about comp and performance and group play, but they tied it to the concepts of an MMO. It's tied to a world, with lore, that you level up in via questing. Questing is just part of how this game is played; these daily activities give me the feeling that there is danger and something going on here in Pandaria.

I don't know your gaming experience, but 5 man play in this game is trite and meaningless. In all honestly, the dailies ARE more challenging and interesting than 5 mans. I really challenge why people are putting dungeons on a pedestal. If anything, I'd die the rep gains to raiding; if you are raiding and killing bosses then you get rep - and fast, say 2.5k per boss. To me, that's rewarding challenge and in the style of the things you describe about the game you like.

These rep rewards are not a precursor to raiding, they are a parrallel path and need to be managed on a time horizon consistent with parrallelism. Getting this gear is not something you do before raiding, it's something you work on at the same time as raiding.


Dailies are MORE challenging than 5 mans? I think you are just a troll at this point. This has to be a troll post because you sound like you don't even play the game and are just here cause you like to argue a ridiculous point.


It's called reading between the lines. Would you be ok with daily dungeon caps on rep implemented in a way that was mutually exclusive with other daily rep, (i.e. set amount of rep per day, regardless of source) - yet dungeon based rep had 2/3 of the cap of daily rep?

So, if I can get 1000 rep per day from dailies, you can get 666 rep per day from dungeons.

This leaves dailies as the most competitive option, either as a replacement or supplement to your dungeon rep. But it will take you 1/3 longer if you choose dungeons alone.


Yes, now you get it! This is exactly what I want. Blizzard wants people out in the world doing dailies, okay fine, but give me an option exactly like that, make it even longer than what you described for dungeon grinding for all I care and my complaint would be completely resolved. I would have my option back, you would have people out in the world doing dailies since they would be the most efficient. Everyone wins


Then we have agreement, I'm ok with this. I was more fearful of the slippery slope and people whose intentions are not for activity diversity, but just getting freebies (there are some among the advocates here) that would end in A) completely grindable rep with no caps, or B) overly high rep gains in dungeons, completely making dailies pointless.

I'm cool with dungeon rep, as long as caps are in place, the favor is on side of the dailies, and perhaps even a reduction or cessation in rep gains to get to exalted via dungeon rep alone. Do you have any thoughts on that last condition?
Dailies give you, rep gear, and account bound mounts

therefore for dungeons to be truly equal they would need to give you rep, gear and access to the same account bound mounts.
Dailies are MORE challenging than 5 mans? I think you are just a troll at this point. This has to be a troll post because you sound like you don't even play the game and are just here cause you like to argue a ridiculous point.


Perhaps you fail to understand how easy these 5 mans really are. I'm the guy in your 5 man doing 50k sustained dps, with 140k spikes on AE, while also getting the interrupts and stuns off.

Trust me, these 5 mans represent absolutely zero increased challenge above the dailies. There is almost no challenge in either activity.

Think - when was the last time you actually failed to complete a dungeon? It hasn't happened to me yet.
dungeon tabards were fine. grinding dailies is not.
10/07/2012 11:28 AMPosted by Firestyle
Dailies are MORE challenging than 5 mans? I think you are just a troll at this point. This has to be a troll post because you sound like you don't even play the game and are just here cause you like to argue a ridiculous point.


Perhaps you fail to understand how easy these 5 mans really are. I'm the guy in your 5 man doing 50k sustained dps, with 140k spikes on AE, while also getting the interrupts and stuns off.

Trust me, these 5 mans represent absolutely zero increased challenge above the dailies. There is almost no challenge in either activity.

Think - when was the last time you actually failed to complete a dungeon? It hasn't happened to me yet.


So you find the likely hood of failing to complete a daily = to that of a dungeon? Are you gonna trip over a log while picking flowers and drop all of the slop you have collected to turn into npc's for the 20th day in a row?
10/07/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Tatertawt
There are plenty of ways to get gear with out doing one daily quest in MoP. They are the very definition of optional. Just because you want something doesn't mean it is required.


I MUST grind dailies to get the enchanting and tailoring patterns. I HAVE to do them. I must grind and grind to get those so don't tell me they are the very definition of optional. The ONLY way to get them is to grind the same stupid dailies.

Firestyle, we get it. You like the dailies, good for you. We are asking for options not advocating the removal of the dailies. Some people like to do them some don't. I don't mind a few now and then but making them mandatory, and yes Rhorie they are mandatory, is what I have a problem with. It turned a game into a monotonous grind and I have one of those already. A job.


Than stop playing. This isn't the game for you if you can't afford a little time to put some effort - and yes that's what it is... than you don't deserve the rewards.
10/07/2012 11:30 AMPosted by Tastytoast
dungeon tabards were fine. grinding dailies is not.


The ONLY way I can see tabards working, is if they give a daily rep cap... the same as what you'd get doing dailies.
So you find the likely hood of failing to complete a daily = to that of a dungeon? Are you gonna trip over a log while picking flowers and drop all of the slop you have collected to turn into npc's for the 20th day in a row?


No, I'm saying there's zero chance of failure at either. If you think these 5 mans are hard, I think you may be the worst player to ever play world of warcraft. They represent zero challenge.

Exactly what do you think about them is so very hard?
10/07/2012 11:37 AMPosted by Rosè
dungeon tabards were fine. grinding dailies is not.


The ONLY way I can see tabards working, is if they give a daily rep cap... the same as what you'd get doing dailies.


worked fine for years, why change it? dailies are boring. questing is boring. i play this game to run dungeons and raids. i dont wanna quest to get gear. im fine with dailies for a mount because i dont have to grind them every day to get the gear to keep up with the others in the guild.
10/07/2012 11:37 AMPosted by Firestyle
So you find the likely hood of failing to complete a daily = to that of a dungeon? Are you gonna trip over a log while picking flowers and drop all of the slop you have collected to turn into npc's for the 20th day in a row?


No, I'm saying there's zero chance of failure at either. If you think these 5 mans are hard, I think you may be the worst player to ever play world of warcraft. They represent zero challenge.

Exactly what do you think about them is so very hard?


Never said they were hard. Stop making up arguments I just said they require more effort than dailies.
10/07/2012 11:37 AMPosted by Rosè
dungeon tabards were fine. grinding dailies is not.


The ONLY way I can see tabards working, is if they give a daily rep cap... the same as what you'd get doing dailies.


Even then I see dungeons becoming the favored activity and deprecating dailies entirely.

Dungeons at that point offer rep, enchanting mats or vendored items, valor, and sometimes a chance at epics. They need to offer less available rep than dailies, and have the gains be mutually exclusive.

For example, when arena gave you conquest up to X% of your cap, then RBGs or daily randoms for the rest if you want to cap. Dungeon rep should provide X% of cap, then dailies if you want to cap the rest. Or perhaps tie the residual amount of rep to cap to the daily challenge mode.


Where did he say rep tabards do not depreciate the dailies? Why change the argument? Where are you getting this idea that people are asking for the dailies to be removed? No one is asking for that here. All people are saying is that it would be nice to have the option to gain rep gear from a playstyle that they enjoy. What exactly is so wrong with that?

No one wants an instant gear button. Blizzard isn't locking these rewards behind a difficulty wall, they are locking them behind a time sink wall. So why does it matter to anyone how I spend that time as long as I am spending it playing the game? For those that love dailies, great, you have that option, an option I am glad you have and do NOT want taken away from you. But the option that I and many others have enjoyed for the past couple of expansions has now been removed.

In Wrath and Cata you could dungeon grind for rep and there was no VP gear tied to dailies, and yet somehow dailies still existed. It wasn't just a few people doing them either, lots of them did. I know every time I was out doing them I saw plenty of others doing the same.

Blizzard wants VP gear to be locked behind a rep grind, okay fine. Why force one path to get that rep though? They could make dailies the easiest and most efficient way to get rep, yet still leave a way for players such as myself. Dungeons too rewarding? Make it so that wearing a tabard negates your ability to roll on gear. Put a cap on rep through dungeons. Make it take 3 times longer to gain rep with a tabard than time spent doing dailies. Have tabards stop working at revered. I really don't care just please give me the option

Rep tabards do depreciate the dailies, but only for the people who hate doing them. For the people who DO enjoy them the reward is still there. No one is asking for that to be removed. We just want our option back!


I don't have an issue with it. But I know people tend to 1) follow the shortest path / easiest path, and 2) don't do things without associated rewards. Let's be honest, people aren't going to do dailies and will not be out in the world if it is not the most efficient route to obtaining the rewards; period.

I'm completely on board with other 'options'. I am 100% against dungeon-based rep as a solution. I've seen people shoot down dailes, and shoot down item (mogu key, dread amber shard) grinding.

What other options do you have, that is not dungeon grinding? Specifically those that might also keep people in the world.
None.

Because, and let me make this abundantly clear, I don't find ANY VALUE WHATSOEVER in doing repetitive tasks out in the world.

Let me put it this way: Imagine, in the actual real world, your friend asks you to take a bike ride to deliver a letter that takes you past a beautiful waterfall. You agree, because it sounds amazing, and you have a good time.

Then, he asks you to do it again the next day.

And the next.

And the next.

And the next, and next, and next, and next.

Do you still look at the damn waterfall? Personally I'd be cursing that damn waterfall.

The whole "get people out in the world" is an appreciable goal, but the one element that is missing from their methods, and which is absolutely unsolveable, is that anything whatsoever that is repeated ad nauseum until a goal is reached gets BORING, period. This is not a solveable problem. You have a higher threshold than others for dailies, others have a higher threshold than you for dungeons, and that is because everyone is different.

To put it point blank, NOTHING is going to get me to ENJOY going "out into the world" and doing the same thing every day, day in day out, for months on end. It just won't happen. I will do what I am forced to do because I am forced to do it, but don't mistake that in any way for enjoying it, and don't think Blizzard gains anything by forcing me to do it; I just grow to resent it.

Ultimately, it's all a moot argument; those that like dailies are much more silent a force on the site, and those that don't are very loud and won't give in till things are changed. Thankfully, squeaky wheels do get grease, as can be evidenced by the changes that are already taking place. It's only a matter of time.

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