Monk PVP

Monk
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Honestly, if they made Celerity how roll was normally, gave us a talent to increase movement speed passively, and gave us the 15% like most other melee have, I think that would go a long way to make monks better.

Charging Ox Wave could be a little better as well.

I'd suggest diffuse magic working while CC'd as well, but I think it would make the talent mandatory.
Inverse,

No offence but the only way for a monk to do well in Arena's is to have a resto druid partner along with a BM hunter/war or holy paladin. It's called being carried.

I'm not saying you're a bad player but ANY class can do better in our role.


Not any class, but I do feel that warriors do most things more strongly than monks. That is the only melee I would consider straight up better in the role, however.

Also, I'm playing strictly with a shadow priest/holy paladin. No warrior or BM hunter or mage or other classes that are considered carry worthy. I tried with a former r1 druid and it didn't work out so well.

That's not to say I feel that monk doesn't need help, but to say it's not glad viable or that you can't outplay bm's/warriors or make comps work with them is the sentiment I'm trying to disprove.

They may need help, but I think it's smaller changes than what's advocated here(and other places). I can also say with certainty that I am not doing everything right spec/playstyle wise so maybe they don't even need as much as I think.
Windwalkers are complete garbage in pvp I'm 90 and just got ganked by an 87 blood dk. He had no pvp gear on save for the trinket and i have legs and belt pvp gear on. By the time I damaged through his blood shield he had me at ~50% hp. i leg sweeped and used chi wave and expel harm to heal up then went back to getting raped some more the whole time he was at 100% hp bc i couldn't do enough damage to break through his blood shield before he would just death strike a new one on. I used every cd i had, and every ability i could muster including using Xuen to help me damage him and chi wave on cd and expel harm constantly to heal. I looked him up in armory and he is in 404 blues with his cata pvp trinket and I'm in 463 heroic blues with the crafted legs and the 483 belt from Sha of Anger. This is ridiculous. If I can't beat an ally 3 lvs lower then max how am I supposed to go against 90's in full pvp gear??!?!?!?!?

Monks are great at PvE but worthless in PvP


You reminded me of something hilarious that happened in EOTS today. So I'm guarding MT and this blood DK runs in and tries to hide. I go after him and we start duking it out. About 4 min and 2 ToK later, we're both sitting at full hp and refusing to give up. Luckily some more allies and horde showed up and I went on to attack someone else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3QhK_X62qg
Well I and many other people do very well in pvp so quit crying everybody!
Inverse,
Not any class, but I do feel that warriors do most things more strongly than monks. That is the only melee I would consider straight up better in the role, however.

Also, I'm playing strictly with a shadow priest/holy paladin. No warrior or BM hunter or mage or other classes that are considered carry worthy. I tried with a former r1 druid and it didn't work out so well.

That's not to say I feel that monk doesn't need help, but to say it's not glad viable or that you can't outplay bm's/warriors or make comps work with them is the sentiment I'm trying to disprove.


One of the issues is the fact that Warriors bring a lot to the table. They're able to sponge up impressive payloads of damage, dish out quite a bit of their own, apply most (if not all) our utility (but to a greater extent), lockdown targets with less difficulty, and really lay on pressure or peeling when needs be. They even have quite a few tricks for escaping, which is really kind of our 'deal' in a way (although not a great one).

Are Monks bad? Naw. Are they particularly good in arena? Nope. This isn't to say you can't queue up and get a decent rating, but there's absolutely going to be a point where you'll (not personal, the royal you) hit a wall as opponents improve.

As you can see, I'm mostly jumping into Arena for the points, and trying to see what works. I've never been a hardcore Arena player mostly because I detest the style of play, but this season I'm looking into focusing on it more. That said, I've come to the conclusion that much to my dismay, Monk appears to be a 'duelist' class.

The less players involved, the better we tend to do. This is unfortunate since the game isn't balanced around 1v1, and this frustration is compounded by the fact that as the number of players increases, we become more underwhelming.

In 2s I run with a Rogue (lol, right?) but we have a tendency to annihilate our opponents (lower rating, but...shh). In 3s, I run with the same Rogue and a Boomkin (again, points and fun), and I can tell you that the addition of one person on each team nearly trivializes my performance. I'm easily the 'softest' target of the group, have very little contribution, etc.

I think eventually we'll be viable for higher rating; I'm confident we'll be tweaked accordingly. However, until that point the best thing we can do is acknowledge the fact we're not quite 'there' yet, and really try to develop our skills and tricks so that we can pick up what edge we can.
Not sure what everyone is complaining about. My 2v2 partner in arena's is a Wind Walker Monk fully geared in Dreadful, 2 ilvl 470 1 handed weapons, 3 conquest pieces and he does far better then any other class 90% of the time when checking the healing/dps stats at the end of the match even if he dies 3/4 of the way into the match.

As far as i am concerned Monks are not broken, so those who complain about them need to actually gear the class, macro your skills and learn to play it.
Not sure what everyone is complaining about. My 2v2 partner in arena's is a Wind Walker Monk fully geared in Dreadful, 2 ilvl 470 1 handed weapons, 3 conquest pieces and he does far better then any other class 90% of the time when checking the healing/dps stats at the end of the match even if he dies 3/4 of the way into the match.

As far as i am concerned Monks are not broken, so those who complain about them need to actually gear the class, macro your skills and learn to play it.


This is also something to consider...I don't even have weapons yet and I'm already consistently outdamaging the enemy team(and my shadow priest, though I understand that's somewhat how shadow works in pvp) at 27th in my battlegroup. Everything I read on EJ and other places says our class scales rediculously with gear (even more so than most melee if you believe the pve'ers over there) and we will only get better with t1, and eventually t2 weapons compared to the output of other classes.

That doesn't solve some of the silly inconsistencies like the weird facing requirements for our most important pvp spells(One of the primary reasons I take the stun over the ranged paralysis atm) and punishing you for not having the correct facing on your enemy arguably moreso than just facing-requirement damaging abilities (something that I though was done away with in lich king with the mutliate change). These things currently add to the skillcap of monk atm, though, and I'm happy to work around them for the time being. Anything that makes the class more rewarding to play is fine by me, but it isn't without it's moments of extreme frustration when doing direct comparisons (unfairly, perhaps) with other melee dps.
Windwalker is terribad. I have a 90 in full pvp gear (counterpoint to claims that your opinion doesn't count if you're not level capped or not in pvp gear) Blizzard, from what I've read, wanted monks to be very mobile. I have no mobility issues. I do not get kited often, because I will run away or attempt to peel into a 1v1 scenario. The problem is that in all the rolling, flying serpent kicks, "CC and flee", I am not actually damaging much. ToK is always my top damage ability.

Tyipically my best results (those which have "fun value", or actually contribute to a win) are in Strand, where I typically go CC all the way and run like hell. Other than that, its sacrificial peeling or hiding in a zerg in AV or Isle.

There are plenty of in-game effects other classes posess that could make WW more viable. For something a bit more fresh, i do have a general idea. I think most people would agree that it has been tradition that any given class fares well against a set group of classes and not so much against others. Playing on monks as generally portrayed in movies and other mmos, give monks passive abilities to dodge ranged attacks, and I mean greater than 15%. It stands to reason that arrow dodging or direct spell dodging should be built into the class. If we were hunter/mage/healer killers we would atleast have a niche. Right now we have "sorta" tools for any given scenario, but nothing strong for any 1 given scenarion. Xuen is a very weak "pet", or rather a weak level 90 ability, BTW - just an add in
Monks are by no means balanced yet. Rated bgs monks can do well, arena is a whole different story. There's only so many things a monk can do to stop burst damage, then getting locked up due to the channeled heals we have and high mana cost for surging mist is another downfall. As mistweaver you gotta rely on your healing spheres until you can use transcendence to escape or until you can cc and roll away. It's difficult for a monk to heal without being feared or cc in some form. Due to not being able to pillar. For talents we need to have some altering for the level 90 talents due to them being to weak. The level 90 talents just don't have the wow factor. The person complaining about mages unless your a windwalker monk which are garbage you shouldn't have issues with mages. Use detox and spec into tigers lust. If worse comes to worse glyph ur bubble so you can use it while your stunned also respec before each arena depending on if your going to face casters or melee, remember you have another talent to reduce damage. All in all though other healers have an edge on us.
Well i have a rogue, warrior, and paladin all 85+ except for the pally who is 83 and a low level feral druid. In comparison to the monk class here is my advice:

If you like to PVP as a dps then just stick with your rogue, warrior or druid, this is why i will be leveling up my rogue and warrior to 90. Someone commented before that the windwalker does not have fast burst dmg. If you are able to pull off fists of furry within the first second or two of engaging hordes then you will win that pvp mach otherwise you will spend most of your combat energy spamming: disable, spear hand strike, flying blossom kick(stuns horde for 2 sec) and leg sweep. When in a BG or pvp encounter usually no opponent is stationary they will kite you and CC you especially hunters, priests and locks . We only have one CC paralyze which is really only effective if you talent for it so that you can use it at range. In a duel with a hunter at my level (90) I died in less than 3 seconds and i am wearing the craft able season 12 contenders gear, WTF? Basically it went like this: flying dragon kick to just to get to the hunter (1 second) then disable hunter and grapple weapon (2 seconds) then roll to get within melee range of hunter again (3 seconds) and my monk is dead. For this class to be effective in pvp its needs a lot of work such as a 20 second silence skill and like at least 5 new spells for CC. In conclusion the Monk class specced as windwalker is the worst class to pvp as.

If you like dungeons and tanking then the monk class is an enjoyable class to be a tank but maybe not the best class to fit the tanking role. With regards to warrior tanking i think the warrior class has many many more skill options to use in the tanking role. But throwing kegs/barrels of bear to grab aggro cracks me up every time. You do have something similar to a warriors charge which is fun. The warriors charges and intervenes are what i love about the playing a warrior in tank role. You can zip zap all over the place in and encounter.

In regards to healing i have not tried playing the healer role in PVP as mist weaver. But i think this is what maybe the best roll for monks in PVP.

For 1v1 PVP fights except for hunters and shadow priests i have found the windwalker class to be awesome. However i get alot of focus fire and we drop quickly.

Its up to you what you choose
What I do not like is our crappy cc.

Paralysis
4s stun in the front
8s stun in the back

I don't even know if I can call this a stun. It is very bad for pvp. 1 its very hard to get behind someone, at least quickly. 2 if any dots are on them at all, its wasted.

I would prefer a cc that I have to cast.

Heck, make us cast Paralysis, but give us the full 8s.

Other than this, I can only speak of Mistweaver, but we are strong healers.
all i want for Xmass is to make Jab deal 100% weapon dmg. as it is my jab hits for like one 6th of my auto attack lol...
What I do not like is our crappy cc.

Paralysis
4s stun in the front
8s stun in the back

I don't even know if I can call this a stun. It is very bad for pvp. 1 its very hard to get behind someone, at least quickly. 2 if any dots are on them at all, its wasted.

I would prefer a cc that I have to cast.

Heck, make us cast Paralysis, but give us the full 8s.

Other than this, I can only speak of Mistweaver, but we are strong healers.


You're forgetting the racial, which is helpful. Don't forget the ranged disarm, which is useful for when you're getting hit by a hunter. I think, mind you, I've done mostly pug BG's (our RBG team is starting this weekend), and a few 2v2's and 3v3's, that (mistweaver) monks are fine. You just gotta play it right, and use the entire toolkit. That's something a LOT of people over all classes tend to forget, that classes all have more than 3 damage spells and a CC, there's a lot more to every class.
I love all the mistweavers on this thread saying "monks are fine in arena" when they haven't even gotten their 1750 achieve yet on their monk for 3s.

Look guys if you are not making a serious attempt for 2k+ rating in 3s your not helping by saying mistweavers are fine if your only exp. with the class is casually playing around 1500 or just occasionally playing with friends or if you haven't even reached level 90 yet! I would like to see current 2k-2.2k+ mistweaver monks that are not being carried by glads respond to the question of monk viability in arena. Oh guess what? There are only like Five in North America that are over 2k rating in 3s currently.

You don't believe me? Go look it up:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/bloodlust/3v3

(filter by team composition)

You can filter by class "monk" and flip through all the battlegroups, the results speak for themselves. Monks in 3s currently is a gimped class compared to druids, paladins and shamans. Firstly your so called "bubble" can be spell stolen, purged, mass dispelled etc. so much for that defensive CD, the amount of cc that monks have do not even compare to what paladins and druids have, and even then if they play their class well they are still sitting at 20% mana when you go oom. Most effective heal requires monk to be vulnerable to cc and the monks greatest attribute it's burst healing causes the monk to go oom quickly, pretty much the only thing you can do is gem/chant spirit to even come close to keeping up with druids and pallies in long fights, which basically pigeon hole's you into one or two comps to be effective. Panda racial shares DR with your other two stun abilities if you spec into it. Roll is currently bugged if you try to jump/roll at the same time. Other abilities such as Diffuse Magic is currently bugged, your interrupt requires melee range making you susceptible to cc, etc., etc. Mistweavers do fine up until 1900 and then once you start going up against players that have some idea of what monks can and can't do, yea it's gg. Again this is not only from personal exp. this season maining a monk in arenas, if you don't want to take my word for it see what glads and R1s are saying about mistweavers and more importantly take a look again at the link here to see how many are actually keeping up with druids, pallies and shamans in 3s currently, statistics like these don't lie.

I hope blizzard is paying attention, if not to these forums, at least to their own statistics.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/bloodlust/3v3

I will say mistweavers can do very well in RBGs, where cc becomes less of an issue because of the number of players involved and ability to free cast, but arenas once you start to play against experienced opponents is a totally different story.

Again if you are not at least playing at level 90 and at least at above 1900+ in 3s please refrain from commenting about viability of mistweavers in arena, you are really not helping.
Thank you, this is exactly what I was saying.

I have been doing BGs/Arenas as a MW and I got to say as a healer who has been 2600 they are not good. The top problems they have :

1.They are way to vulnerable to CC. Before I can land my own CC I am already cloned, feared, polyd, silenced, etc. -you get the point- This basically already puts my team at a disadvantage cause when they choose me as a healer I am just going to be controlled by the opposing team the whole time basically, especially if they have ranged. Also in this regard, once monks are CC'd the only way to get out is trinket/racial's. Unlike Shamans who have tremor, priests with fear wards/vanishes, paladins with sacrifices/bubbles and druids with vanishes/tree form/symbio we have nothing, so we just sit in CC's ALL day. They need to give us a CC break or something.
2. Spells cost too much. Even with mana tea if I am up against a rdruid/rsham/hpally I will lose the mana battle if it lasts too long. Monks regen/mana efficiency is right there with priests.
3.Clunky in general. Most of our spells look great on paper but in practice -especially in arena- are bad. For example, zen meditation, a great spell but unlike grounding we get the debuff we take, so if the other team knows that you are casting it all they have to do is cast a cyclone or any other cc and guess what you just effd yourself. They need to fix some spells to actually be worth using, yes I know that these spells are still good but some bring more harm then good.
4. Heals too susceptible to purge/dispels. Monks have many hots that are key to keeping up their allies, enveloping mists is a huge hot heal that isn't even really worth using in pvp due to purge spam. Purge/offensive dispels need to be fixed by having some sort of CD. Being able to completely null some healers heals by spamming a single ability is very annoying. I think all healers are having trouble with purge.

On the other side there are great things about MWs. A couple I think are :
1. God-like mobility. Even tho we are slightly squishy without cooldown's if you use a good rotation with rolls and transcendence you are literally untouchable. Don't forget you can disable melee chasing you too.
2.Huge heals. Monk burst healing is right there with shaman's if you can get 2sec+ of free cast someone will be topped off in about 3 globals. Great on spot healing and amazing hots (enveloping/renewing and even zen sphere).
3. Awesome utility if can be used. If the monk is able to actually get close enough to use their full arsenal then they are amazing to have in a fight. To be able to disarm/root/silence/disorient/stun all in one package is amazing.
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In all I find that MW atm are very poor in 3s where they are more open to CC than say 2s/RBGs and even 5s. I think they do very well in 5/2/RBGs, because they are able to cast more freely and openly...but of course, all healers will be able to in those places as well so it doesn't really justify anything.

I think monks in general need to have a baseline CC remover/immunity. And need some tweaking to some abilities, most of them just feel borrowed at least mist weavers do.

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