I'm Losing Hit Chance in Challenge Modes

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[quote]Hm. That does sound pretty bad. Also.

FACE.


10/05/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Serrias
OH MY GOD IT'S LIKE LOOKING INTO THE FACE OF DEATH'S WORST NIGHTMARE THAT IS SO AWESOME I'M GONNA MAKE A PRIEST RIGHT NOW


OMG, i dont know if I want to have secks with your face or set fire to it...
I know I cant stop staring at it.
I know this thread’s a few days old now, but I’d like to clarify the cause for concern here so others are aware. Balkoth, we were able to track down a bug pertaining to item scaling in Challenge Modes, but it’s not related solely to classes that use a spirit -> hit conversion.

What you’re noticing is a bug specifically involving reforging. If you reforge out of crit/haste/mastery INTO hit or expertise, then when the crit/haste/mastery gets scaled down, you also lose a percentage of the reforged hit/expertise. So, it's not a class or spec issue -- it affects all players who have reforged into hit/spirit equally.

Given the way stat scaling and reforging mechanics work, this is kind of a tricky issue to fix, but we’re looking into it.


Yeowch. I can't imagine that being a fun romp through the code for GC and crew, seeing as those systems are really heavily intertwined. Yech. :(

Hey zar this is unrelated but is there any chance you could pass words to the dev's or whoever that since this morning Sha of Anger has been seriously bugged in many realms?

Blackrock and Sargeras have not seen it spawn in over 10 hours.


Make a thread in the Bug Report forums and detail the issue here. This thread is not the place to put this, as it is hijacking and completely unrelated to the thread subject.

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Seems like a viable workaround is cap via gemming/gear. Don't know how practical that is for shadow, though. Needing to avoid reforging for hit seems pretty rough.

Eng trinket cogged with spi/expertise/hit lol.

I kid, I kid (or do I...)
I know this thread’s a few days old now, but I’d like to clarify the cause for concern here so others are aware. Balkoth, we were able to track down a bug pertaining to item scaling in Challenge Modes, but it’s not related solely to classes that use a spirit -> hit conversion.

What you’re noticing is a bug specifically involving reforging. If you reforge out of crit/haste/mastery INTO hit or expertise, then when the crit/haste/mastery gets scaled down, you also lose a percentage of the reforged hit/expertise. So, it's not a class or spec issue -- it affects all players who have reforged into hit/spirit equally.

Given the way stat scaling and reforging mechanics work, this is kind of a tricky issue to fix, but we’re looking into it.

Here's an idea: Give everyone in the Challenge dungeon 463s that are suited for their current spec and then players don't have to worry about the scaling issue and neither do you.
10/09/2012 08:39 PMPosted by Fearthereapr
Here's an idea: Give everyone in the Challenge dungeon 463s that are suited for their current spec and then players don't have to worry about the scaling issue and neither do you.


Wouldn't be able to do reforge's then to suit specific needs.

I.E: A Frost DK benefits more from Mastery in AoE situations then haste, how would I be able to prepare for an AoE encounter (pre-dungeon) if that were too happen.
I know this thread’s a few days old now, but I’d like to clarify the cause for concern here so others are aware. Balkoth, we were able to track down a bug pertaining to item scaling in Challenge Modes, but it’s not related solely to classes that use a spirit -> hit conversion.

What you’re noticing is a bug specifically involving reforging. If you reforge out of crit/haste/mastery INTO hit or expertise, then when the crit/haste/mastery gets scaled down, you also lose a percentage of the reforged hit/expertise. So, it's not a class or spec issue -- it affects all players who have reforged into hit/spirit equally.

Given the way stat scaling and reforging mechanics work, this is kind of a tricky issue to fix, but we’re looking into it.


Challenge modes should just normalize all our stats pertaining to our class. This would mean every player of that class would have the same stat sheet regardless of what they are wearing. Scaling always struck me as gimmicky and open to various glitches that would need to be looked at.
YES! YES! YES! NO! NO! YES! PEPPERS!

I agree. My DPS dropped considerably in challenge mode to 19k and a second earlier in heroics I was doing 30k easily. I thought maybe it was my FPS or I was just sucking. Now I know why. Or at least I think I know why. I reforged and it shot my DPS up quite a bit.

But in challenge, I was just terrible. But I wasn't crunching numbers on comparing pie charts, I just noticed my DPS was lame in that thing. I hope this is the case and I wasn't just sucking
I say just give them a buff when entering the dungeon to make up for the percentage...unless that is too simplistic.
I know this thread’s a few days old now, but I’d like to clarify the cause for concern here so others are aware. Balkoth, we were able to track down a bug pertaining to item scaling in Challenge Modes, but it’s not related solely to classes that use a spirit -> hit conversion.

What you’re noticing is a bug specifically involving reforging. If you reforge out of crit/haste/mastery INTO hit or expertise, then when the crit/haste/mastery gets scaled down, you also lose a percentage of the reforged hit/expertise. So, it's not a class or spec issue -- it affects all players who have reforged into hit/spirit equally.

Given the way stat scaling and reforging mechanics work, this is kind of a tricky issue to fix, but we’re looking into it.


Maybe take hit out of the equation altogether by either giving players a challenge mode buff that awards the hit cap one its own and just remove peoples hit from gear from their stats for the duration? Or modify the enemies so that special attacks can never miss enemies in challenge modes at all? After all most people are going to be hit capped for normal stuff by the time they do challenge modes.
Hey zar this is unrelated but is there any chance you could pass words to the dev's or whoever that since this morning Sha of Anger has been seriously bugged in many realms?

Blackrock and Sargeras have not seen it spawn in over 10 hours.


Because it spawned like 5 times in 3 1/2 hours last night wasn't enough
by either giving players a challenge mode buff that awards the hit cap


A good idea, but I fear that would boost white damage too much from dual wielding classes, making groups of Rogues, Fury Warriors, Frost DK's, and Enh Shaman's a bit OP. Gold medal parties are already running without healers, if they brought an Enh Sham for offheals, the white damage from the entire group would skew their DPS giving them a better time.

remove peoples hit from gear from their stats for the duration?


Better idea. Or even completely remove the hit requirements for the entire challenge mode? But that would also effect dual wielding classes, in the other direction.

Doesn't look like this is going to be an easy fix one - fix all solution.
10/09/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
Given the way stat scaling and reforging mechanics work, this is kind of a tricky issue to fix, but we’re looking into it.
I have a suggestion.

How about everyone is just automatically Hit/Exp capped in CModes?

You can adjust health pools or damage mechanics accordingly, but this way you know everyone is literally on the same baseline page when it comes to approaching the content.

And then you can stop doing convoluted scaling/conversion stuff and just run with a "simple" flat iLevel drop, since you can be confident it's just going to scale down relative power rather than cross a binary PASS | FAIL threshold.
10/09/2012 07:25 PMPosted by Rbane
While you're "looking into reforging issues" do you guys mind taking a glance at the PvP Arena forums, you know, just check in to see how things balanced at 90? Or didn't as the case may be? I know you guys must be super busy with bug fixes with Activision pushin u guys so hard to spam out content before it's thouroughly Beta tested, but we'd appreciate at least some form of a Blue post acknowledgement that Someone Somewhere cares about PvP as well at Blizzard... Thank you and have a great day!


^^^
Just give them hit cap when they walk in the door. In fact them expertise cap from dodge and hit cap at the door. Your chance to hti increased by 100% your chance to not be dodged 100%.
What if we walk in with bone link and vial?

Does it scale up? :D
Auto hit- / exp-capping everyone won't work, because everyone would just reforge completely out of those stats and enjoy the 'free' stats the instant they enter the dungeon.

This also doesn't address any other soft-caps (e.g. haste) people are reforging for, just to lose them when they walk in.

My suggestion: give us a second reforge guy that scales down our gear for Challenge Modes, prior to doing our actual reforging. This takes all the guess-work out of 'what will happen to my gear when I walk in', and doesn't require a fix for the issue Zarhym mentioned. I can choose to go for hit-cap, or slightly less if I want to. I can reforge precisely to my desired haste plateau, and so on. When done with Challenge Modes for the day, head back to the regular reforge guy.

If the scaling-down is difficult to code at the normal reforgers, give us a portal to a 'challenge-instance' that consists of nothing but a room with a reforger and a portal to return.

Problem solved.
10/09/2012 09:08 PMPosted by Ânubis
I agree. My DPS dropped considerably in challenge mode to 19k and a second earlier in heroics I was doing 30k easily. I thought maybe it was my FPS or I was just sucking. Now I know why. Or at least I think I know why. I reforged and it shot my DPS up quite a bit.


You lost luck of the draw. That's a 15% bonus you get in heroics that you will not be getting in challenge modes. It's a lot.

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