Burst of Garbage.

Rogue
I just recently switched to combat for pvp and figured with the increased energy regen would make BoS a bit more attractive. It did slightly but still not enough to make it worth taking. Even stacking haste, (nearly 20% now) my energy regen is at 12.something a second making it hardly noticeable.
That will change in later patches with beefier gear, but at the moment it seems pretty meh.
Trying to compensate right now using anticipation to build 10cps on the target and letting myself get kited. Vanish and reopen with a 4 second kidney and blow killing spree followed by two eviscerates. does some pretty hefty burst.

Bos is okay if you have mega hit and expertise and are actually able to do lots of auto attack damage.
10/04/2012 11:50 AMPosted by Failrogue
I agree with anything that says "Rogue and Garbage"


Ive resigned to picking through the garbage in org to scrounge up a living. Garbage seems to be a recurring theme in a rogues life so far this patch. I had a 2200 DK try to carry me in 2s so we named the team failroguespitycarryparty. We got facerolled with almost every comp that has a mage in it.

But on a serious note BoS needs to be 40-50 energy and actually work. The main thing its good for now is carrying flag and running away.


lol i love you.
your a tool if you even spec into it. Give us 180 energy then it'll be worth it for burst of pos. Level 90 choices sukc too. Waste of rogue talents, they should all be passive. Delete Shuriken toss,give us deadly throw back.


So you mean gladiator rogues are tools?


Show me one Glad rogue that is active in arenas right now at 90 now with BoS, I'll be very surprised and I'll show you 10 that aren't.


So you mean gladiator rogues are tools?


Show me one Glad rogue that is active in arenas right now at 90 now with BoS. I'll be very surprised.


I'm not siding with redfang (as the guy doesn't know what the !@#$ he is talking about and is completely %^-*ing lost) but

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Rzn/simple

His healer was asking him to spec BoS for some match ups. As stated in this thread by multiple people, it has it's pro's and it has it's cons. It's not as bad as people make it out to be, but it's not amazing either. When I went to rzn's stream to see a match between him and some of my friends/arena partners and he was talking about how he didn't want to use BoS over step (he was vsing fire MLS, a team with plenty of roots)

He's the only rogue I could think of, on the top of my head that is using BoS over step atm and even then he was using step (and prefers it) when I tuned into his stream for a bit.
10/04/2012 01:23 PMPosted by Crackhorde
failroguespitycarryparty


I'm using that as an arena team name, LOL


Show me one Glad rogue that is active in arenas right now at 90 now with BoS. I'll be very surprised.


I'm not siding with redfang (as the guy doesn't know what the !@#$ he is talking about and is completely %^-*ing lost) but


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Rzn/simple

His healer was asking him to spec BoS for some match ups. As stated in this thread by multiple people, it has it's pro's and it has it's cons. It's not as bad as people make it out to be, but it's not amazing either. When I went to rzn's stream to see a match between him and some of my friends/arena partners and he was talking about how he didn't want to use BoS over step (he was vsing fire MLS, a team with plenty of roots)

He's the only rogue I could think of, on the top of my head that is using BoS over step atm and even then he was using step (and prefers it) when I tuned into his stream for a bit.


Case in point. That my friend is the exception, not the rule on top of the fact he only uses it situationally and prefers step for the majority of the time. BTW my edit on the previous post was before I saw your first post sinsbad. But it still holds true nonetheless, for every 1 BoS taker there are 10 that don't and for good reasons. It's !@#$ for the amount of energy it costs, and the either/or snare-immunity/speed.

And yeah redfang...completely !@#$ing lost is appropriate I think. :-p
Shadowstep is terrible in arena's right now with all the roots and cc and dispels on a 8sec cd.
Lets Compare BoS And ShS shall we?

Energy: BoS - 60 ShS - 0 Energy Cost

CD: BoS -0 CD ShS - 24 second CD

Benefits: Shs - Can teleport up places, and can do it while stealthed. Bos - ?

Now, rogue's have things called stuns, and disorients. These things buy rogues a thing called time. The question in this matter is really, are you energy starved? ShS is your answer. Are you not mobile enough? BoS may help. Though to me shadowstep is much better. It is a guarantee to get back to your target to shiv.

Here are some questions to bring to the table.

Can BoS be used while in stealth and can you remain in stealth?

Does BoS if activated when snared keep you from becoming slowed by another effect?

Here are some questions to bring to the table.

Can BoS be used while in stealth and can you remain in stealth?

Does BoS if activated when snared keep you from becoming slowed by another effect?

No. However with Shadow Focus and stealth glyph you can use it for free and re-stealth before the buff ends, thus allowing 100% uptime out of combat.

Yes.
Lets Compare BoS And ShS shall we?

Energy: BoS - 60 ShS - 0 Energy Cost

CD: BoS -0 CD ShS - 24 second CD

Benefits: Shs - Can teleport up places, and can do it while stealthed. Bos - ?

Now, rogue's have things called stuns, and disorients. These things buy rogues a thing called time. The question in this matter is really, are you energy starved? ShS is your answer. Are you not mobile enough? BoS may help. Though to me shadowstep is much better. It is a guarantee to get back to your target to shiv.

Here are some questions to bring to the table.

Can BoS be used while in stealth and can you remain in stealth?

Does BoS if activated when snared keep you from becoming slowed by another effect?

We're both fairly energy starved and immobile.

Seriously, picking between ShS and BoS is always situational. You pick BoS if the team has lots of snare/root if not ShS.
10/04/2012 09:45 AMPosted by Lycanthroat
It's not as bad as you're saying.. but it could be better. You just have to not spam your attacks so much and actually focus on how you're spending your energy.


Been high in rating before, I know how to pool energy. Doesn't change the fact it's still too much energy to be used effectively offensively. For the new bg Temple of Kotmogu it's decent because all you have to do is run away. When pressure must be sustained on a target you cannot use BoS at those most crucial moments. This ability must be refined to be on par with prep and step.


If you know how to manage your energy properly then what is the problem? You can't use it offensively enough you say, where do you draw the line?

The energy cost has to have meaning, you have to consider all the other things like vanish, cloak and sprint. Not to mention dispels from other classes.
[quote="67937887718"][quote]It's not as bad as you're saying.. but it could be better.

If you know how to manage your energy properly then what is the problem? You can't use it offensively enough you say, where do you draw the line?

The energy cost has to have meaning, you have to consider all the other things like vanish, cloak and sprint. Not to mention dispels from other classes.


No !@#$ Sherlock. I'm talking about looking at it from the perspective of comparing it to the other abilities in the tier ie: shadowstep and prep. Those are huge abilities, BoS fails to be on par. I'm not asking for a no energy BoS so we can constantly sprint, but although seeing what they did with druids it would only be fair. However shaving off 20 energy or so would make it ideal, not removing you from stealth, etc. You said so yourself, it could be better. that's what im hoping to achieve.
BoS could be an amazing ability, but it really needs some fine tuning.

First off, 60 energy costs FAR too much for what it does. It either increases speed by 70% for 4 seconds, or removes a snare/root and prevents any snare/roots for 4 seconds. This would be a LOT more acceptable if it was both at the same time for the 60 energy, but its not. Either stack the effects or shave off 20-25 energy on it.

Second, why can't we use it in stealth? We can use sprint in stealth just fine, so why not BoS?

Third, when are rogues going to stop feeling like the red-headed step child of balance? Have people seen how many abilities we have to constantly go through in order to be decent? Not to mention over half of those abilities are all on 2-3 minute cooldowns. Every fight I'm blowing 3-4 cooldowns just to stand a chance, not including WotF and trinkets. Honestly ever since vanilla rogues have been getting weaker and weaker it seems.
[quote]
[quote]It's not as bad as you're saying.. but it could be better.

If you know how to manage your energy properly then what is the problem? You can't use it offensively enough you say, where do you draw the line?

The energy cost has to have meaning, you have to consider all the other things like vanish, cloak and sprint. Not to mention dispels from other classes.


No !@#$ Sherlock. I'm talking about looking at it from the perspective of comparing it to the other abilities in the tier ie: shadowstep and prep. Those are huge abilities, BoS fails to be on par. I'm not asking for a no energy BoS so we can constantly sprint, but although seeing what they did with druids it would only be fair. However shaving off 20 energy or so would make it ideal, not removing you from stealth, etc. You said so yourself, it could be better. that's what im hoping to achieve.


I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just thinking there are other ways to buff it than the energy cost. Like someone else said, maybe give us the sprint boost if it removes something anyway.

That said, we should have shadowstep baseline. Period.
I haven't touched it, but how do you close the gap once you've broken the snare?

I don't mean this as a jab, but why are the 2 under 90 rogues the only people defending BoS? I haven't used it so I don't have an opinion on it. I'm legit curious as to how it's better than step.

I get rooted, break it with bos, then get kited, at least that's how it plays in my mind, I have enough energy to bos to close the gap and now I'm feared rerooted w/e and by that time I'm dead. In my mind I just can't see it being better than step.


Because I did a ton of pvp on beta...

Also, you should have your target snared with crippling so while you are moving at 100% speed they aren't.

BoS is the best ability on that tier for most fights, you just have to learn to use it right.


You're wrong it is not best

Shadow step in arena would be best cause you can shadow step a friendly target now and make it a macro for it ...

BOS is good for World pvp/bg not arena..
Stepping to friendlies is a pretty awesome change. If we weren't in such a bad spot right now that would be a pretty sweet buff that gets overlooked by all the nerfs.
I think BoS should work like Monk's roll. At first costing 20 energy, but every time you use it, the energy cost of it goes up by 20 or 25 until its cd ends
10/05/2012 09:59 AMPosted by Arktick
I think BoS should work like Monk's roll. At first costing 20 energy, but every time you use it, the energy cost of it goes up by 20 or 25 until its cd ends


Hey hey hey come on now. Don't you know every other class get's given our abilities, but not the other way around.

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