How to Raid in 5.0-5.1 [Holy/Disc]

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Well you've given me EVEN MORE to think about @TwistedMind. (Not sure if that is a good or bad thing as my mind starts to spin with all of the numbers!)

Right now I'm sitting at:
Spirit: 10133 (222 + 9911)
Mastery: 39.05% (4573 + 19.05%)
Crit: 1638
Haste: 879

I have gemmed fairly heavily for spirit to hit that 10k number that so many have tossed around - and it is a noticeable difference for those that were wondering! I like the spirit level I'm at currently, especially as my team is only 2 bosses into MV right now and we still don't have a steady team.

The truth is that I'm still adjusting my playstyle from how I played in Cata. As I've stated before I tend to be aggressive with the casts. But I don't wish to be aggressive at the cost of my role or the team as a whole. With our new shield in Spirit Shell; I've leaned towards favoring a bit more mastery than previously in order to protect my team as much as possible. I did bump up Crit a smidge for the change to DA; and actually purposefully lowered my haste to help curb some of my spams. (It's like deliberately not stocking the kitchen with chips because you'll just eat them if they are there!). I still HF/Smite/Penance for Atonement - but not as liberally as before. But again, still finding my groove here in Pandaria.

Based upon your (and others) input I may go for a bit more crit and see how that pans out. Thanks again.
Cool (just got back from groceries shopping and had to see how this thread was going ;)

If that wasn't enough to think about, also think about what you're casting when your healing actually matters (burst aoe, heavy tank hits, unexpected damage from derp ups). For me personally, I'm either spirit shelling, more pw:s use for safety or for tank stability, or maximizing our level 90 talent with archangel in each of the previously mentioned scenarios.

Crit and mastery sim very close to one another by my spell breakdown, but because I place more emphasis on pw:s than most, I'm stacking mastery instead of crit. If you're spot healing with atonement or casting your 90 talent closer to cooldown (than me), I'd probably prefer an equal crit/mastery at this level of spirit. If you're rolling the new overpowered PoH for almost everything, I'd probably try to stack gear that has base spirit/crit, and reforge as much of that crit to haste as I can without ooming myself.
"Irv...we need a brain matter clean up on Aisle 4 - STAT!"

But yes. ^^ That is what I've been trying to ascertain. Am I casting correctly or being derp out of old habits where it didn't matter? I may also go for smidge more haste after I balance the crit/mastery some; however I do have to be careful. Again - that is to limit my derpness ;D
I finished writing the end of heart of fear on the first page:

Something about grand empress and dissonance fields: PW:S can be cast on someone in a field and it absorbs the damage they're taking from being in a field. I tried to use strength of soul and divine insight procs to keep them in the field for longer. Spirit shelling someone in a field doesn't work, but divine aegis does. If a target with Cry of Terror steps out of a field, absorbs will prevent the damage they're pulsing to the other raiders. Mitigation effects like Pain Suppression work both in dissonance fields, and they lessen the damage outside a dissonance field.
11/21/2012 01:05 AMPosted by Twistedmind
PW:S can be cast on someone in a field and it absorbs the damage they're taking from being in a field

This was not my experience. In fact, I very quickly noticed that PW:Shield did nothing to keep the people from taking damage in the field.
This was not my experience. In fact, I very quickly noticed that PW:Shield did nothing to keep the people from taking damage in the field.


Fields have always pierced absorbs, so says Affinity! (can't find link atm)
Are you sure? This is my logs from Grand Empress:

If you run this through the expression editor:
spellID = 17
OR spellID = 123258
OR spell = "Dissonance Field"
OR spell = "Cry of Terror"

You should see that both the normal PW:S and the Divine Insight proc PW:S are landing on the targets and fully absorbing the damage that the Dissonance Fields are doing.

Edit: I just did another parse with the OR spellID = 47753 conditional to see if Divine Aegis (from an inner focus Gheal) was working inside the fields and it's behaving as stated above. Spirit Shell is the only absorb that isn't working for me inside the fields.
Anyone 25ers doing Sha? I'm interested in what you do should you get ported to the Shrine.

At the moment it feels like a 50/50 crap shot to me. Either I keep everyone at 100 and stay on top, or the group dies or crawls out at 10%.

To a point where I'd rather sit myself and risk having everyone go under.

If one guy from each party gets ported I have next to nothing to keep everyone floating outside of 'pre-bubble-GH-penance-flash-rebubble" alla all single target as everyone's HP goes down. If SS is up then I stack it with FLASH HEAL. FLASH HEAL (feels dirty). Which puts a stop to the damage. But when that get eaten up and everyone starts diving again I feel pretty helpless.

Don't think I have it down yet. Need to do some more. Unfortunately I've only been ported 4 times (2 went fine, 1 was 50/50 and one tanked) that risks the raid going under and I don't think my guild can tolerate wiping because 'one guy needs practice'. Sat myself for the Sha kill so that ends the attempts for this week. Don't really want to be continuously sat for the future.

Am I missing something? What else can be done? Or is it "just sit and pray the four other guys know what they are doing and live?"
The damage on the platform is the same as in 10 man, and I really struggled because you can't use poh. The best things I took away from it were glyph penance and holy fire, always cast them at the mob while running after orbs. You want to spam PW:S and flash heals, but for group dips in hp, I found Halo to be really good. If you guys are taking Death Blossom damage, LoS behind the pillars better.
We HAVE to move for death blossom or it's just gonna kill us, hah. -_- orz T_T Not sure how many gets ported in 10s, but for 25s it's 3 DPS a healer and a tank. 5 people spread out in different parties...really rough.

I have cascade...I should change it to Halo for this fight. Thanks..really need to try that. maybe it'll have better results.

What I've been using is pre bubble EVERYONE walking into the platform, then use output CDs. For one of the 4 tries, I've been desperate enough to use SS PI AA and then spam flash heal to max everyone's SS out. It worked for,...10 seconds? Then everyone started to dive again and it went to a point where I was bubbling while binding heal and penance.

Basically if all 5 people are low, there's nothing I can do to save all five in a short time. Somebody has to go. Which really shouldn't be the case.

I've always had holy fire glyphed and I've been using it on CD. It helps, but the output is just not enough. Right now the only thing I've been able to do is rack absorbs and spam and hope the group kills the dude before I fall behind on damage when shields are sucked up and I fall behind.

Not too sure what is happening...there are times where I get out with the group 100% pristine, and then there are times where we just die.
Hey zam, I have my strategy for that on the first page. I basically flash heal spammed and pw:s everybody all the time. Halo for me has sick burst because it's not getting the aoe cap with so few people on that platform. Fear ward and human racial the fears, and try to get divine insight procs on people if they have both weakened soul and 1 stack of that fear debuff.

Also, this week I'm trying to run disc on every fight because inner focus and spirit shell is buggered out. But I will be looking to roll holy more often because of the chakra changes.

I wrote up everything I learned for Terrace of Endless Spring:
Also with the new upgrade system in place, you want to follow the same rules as the dps classes:
Weapon>Trinkets>BiS gear

The weapons will yield the biggest stat increase for you over everything else. I would recommend holding out for upgrading until you have a sha weapon because they outclass most every other weapon with the proper epic gem.

For trinkets, you want to upgrade them because of a bigger primary stat gain (int passive trinkets), but also because the procs get upgraded. Because of the insane uptime on the Relic of Chi Ji, I highly recommend upgrading that to max right away.

For the BiS gear, I'm personally not going to pool my valor while waiting for the best in slot piece. If getting the stat upgrade now helps me in progression, the quicker I can get to having all of this on farm and I will have a greater probability of actually seeing that piece of gear. Also, some gear is going to take priority. Head, chest, and pants are going to carry a much bigger upgrade than rings, wrists, and hands so it's better to put valor into those first. I'm personally trying to hold out for the pants from Heroic Dogs, but if you're trying to get tier bonuses and you're making use of tier pants, upgrading our headpiece is a good idea.
Totally did better on Sha of Fear...strange how it can go when everyone actually makes an effort...\o/

Also, Heroic Spirit Kings will make you want to choke a puppy when you're one of the two priests to dispel. -_-
I'm making a personal list of things I could be doing better (so I can check them off per encounter) and felt it was worth sharing. Also, I changed the thread title again because I'm bad at naming threads.

Both Specs
Always be casting
Always fit as many mana cooldowns in per encounter
Ctrl+1 shadowfiend/mindbender to new targets or priority targets
Move shadowfiend/mindbender over deadly ground effects that must be cleared
Sync shadowfiend/mindbender up with haste/int buffs
Sync shadowfiend/mindbender with hymn of hope
Sync hymn of hope with other hymns of hope and other healer's mana cd's
Cast expensive spells to avoid mana capping
Cancel casts at the end of the cast to save mana
If it's safe, keep targets at ~70%-80% hp for critical heals and minimizing overheal
Cancel cast at the beginning of the cast to immediately line up with predictable burst
Cast prayer of mending on cooldown during pulsing auras
Cast prayer of mending between two dotted people or two tanks
Glyph prayer of mending for heavy movement or casting on cd w/out aura damage
Wait for all charges to be used if saving mana with prayer of mending
Look ahead to see who would be a good target to prayer of heal
Move or make others move for a better prayer of heal
Start appropriate fights with a pre-pot and a max damage rotations
Start appropriate fights with lots of hots/bubbles and a pre-pull mana drink
Assist raiders with movement if possible with feathers, body and soul, and leap of faith
Save yourself as a priority with desperate prayer, void shift, healthstone, binding heal
Use desperate prayer and healthstones to save mana
Use void shift on emergency targets, unhealable targets, or with spirit link
Use phantasm/spectral guise on fights that cheese dropping the current target
Pull aggro and kite into a fade to buy time with stray adds
Use glyphed fade when appropriate
Fade on the fights pull for safe healing
Use void tendrils for clumps of adds; sync w/other aoe cc (ring of frost, remorseless winter)
Use glyphed psychic scream and psyfiend to interrupt casters
Use glyphed psychic scream and psyfiend to reduce tank damage
Use glyphed psychic scream and psyfiend to cc adds
Use dominate mind on adds with cheesing buffs/spells
Use dominate mind on fights with friendly players getting mind controlled
Use from darkness comes light on fights with heavy singe target heals
Use from darkness comes light on fights with 'unlimited' mana
Use from darkness comes light on fights with sporadic movement
Use mindbender on fights with consistent mana taxation
Use mindbender on fights with heavy cascade use
Use mindbender on fights with additional haste modifiers
Use power word: solace on fights with zero healing
Use power word: solace on fights with strict dps checks
Use power word: solace on fights mana pool size modifiers
Solace at least 6 times per minute
Cast holy fire on dying adds/boss for twist of fate
Cast instants on sub 20% hp people for twist of fate
Use slow, powerful spells during power infusion
Maximize dps and spells that give procs during power infusion
Cancel cast spells twice as much to save mana during power infusion
Use psyfiend/shadowfiend to build a bigger traveling distance with cascade
Cast cascade before damage occurs for proactive burst healing
Cast cascade between two groups for fights with range checks
Cast cascade on self if burst aoe is needed and other raiders are spread out around you
Shoot divine star in front of the path you're moving for closer together healing
Shoot divine star behind you and move forward for delayed/proactive healing
Shoot a divine star at a perpendicular while under a movement speed to do spread healing
Cast halo proactively for tank spikes
Stand away from non-priority targets avoid diminishing the aoe of halo
Move into a halo with increased movement speed to benefit from your own halo
Recast prayer of mending if it's stuck on someone taking no damage
Cast mass dispel after shattering throws are on cd for undispellable mechanics
Make the group move or precast for better mass dispels
Be the first to purify and glyph if needed
Let shamans and mages offensively dispel before you if possible
Jump in and out of inner will to save mana with dispels, level 90 talents, and pom
Stay in inner fire for any physical damage and potentially glyph if needed
Fear ward yourself or others early for maximum usage
The continued list from above

Cancel cast during light damage to line up heals after echoes of light expires
Renew on tanks
Chakra chastise stance for mana saving if light healing
Lightwell to save mana
Cancelaura Chakra to Chastise for last resort interrupts
Holy word serenity + flash flash greater for burst single target or big echoes of light
Cascade, holy word serenity, glyphed pw:shield (situational), or single target to refresh renew
Circle of healing on cd; glyphed for max throughput, unglyphed for movement/mana saving in inner will
For FDcL, heal spam after a free flash and try to proc another before using it with gheal to save mana
Use holy word: sanctuary for proactive aoe or to show where you want ppl to stand
Guardian spirit yourself if doing dangerous void shifting
Guardian spirit lower health targets to save mana while bringing them up with heal
Guardian spirit proactively to build a big echo of light
If using divine insight, don't cast mending until the current one expires to save mana
Step into something and die if oom and the fight is almost overor you have a rez
Try to snipe all the heals during spirit of redemption to save raid mana
Maximize divine hymn usage during the encounter after accounting cd coordination

Rapture as close to cd as possible
PW:S earlier than Rapture's cd if tanks are running cd's or damage is light
Try to proc rapture on more than one target if possible
Especially proc rapture during increased spirit buffs
Try to penance on cooldown and during borrowed time
Try to Renew during a borrowed time on tanks
Try to Archangel on cooldown
Avoid using archangel unless at 3 or more stacks of evangelism
Fit 3 smites in after 1 holy fire
Keep grace stacked on the tanks or various melee
Try to Spirit Shell on cooldown
Use spirit shell to conserve mana with healspam
Inner Focus + Gheal on targets with 3 stacks of grace preferrably
Only Inner Focus + Prayer of Heal on 5 targets preferrably
Inner Focus close to cooldown if possible
Reduce healing 4 seconds prior to Inner Focus coming off cooldown
Dispel Unstable Affliction-like buffs with Inner Focus
Try to use 6-7 Greater Heals in between Inner Focus for maxing Train of Thought
Try to fit 5 smites in between Penance for maxing Train of Thought
Try to use flash, greater, or heal on targets with weakened soul at least once for Strength of Soul
Cast at least 3 slow heals on a target with Weakened Soul to maximize Strength of Soul
Try to shield every 5 seconds if using Divine Insight; Glyph pw:s if needed
Cap spirit shell in either 3 poh's, or 2 gheals (1 gheal with archangel and grace running)
Delay using Penance and Holy Fire only if movement and healing are coming up
Pain supp and barrier as close to cooldown as possible
Raidwall with spirit shell and a 5 evangelism stack 1 min archangel with Inner Focus if big cd's are unavailable
Healspam under haste buffs for grace stacking
Synch 1 halo or 2 divine stars/cascade during archangel
Don't let evangelism fall off and don't stack more than 6 times for max hps.
If juggling FDCL, always store at least 1 flash and dump them into weakened soul targets or melee for grace
If 3 instant cast spells are coming off cooldown for your next borrowed time, go inner will prior to
Try to maximize 4 instants and 1 really slow casting spell during borrowed time
Pause when using glyph of fade if focused will is active
I also confirmed tonight that multiple rapture procs have been fixed:
[22:09:58.995] Twistedmind gains 22022 mana from Twistedmind's Rapture
[22:09:58.995] Twistedmind's Power Word: Shield fades from Sef (Remaining: 0)
[22:09:58.995] Twistedmind's Power Word: Shield fades from Kiaje (Remaining: 0)
[22:09:58.995] Twistedmind's Power Word: Shield fades from Demônlock (Remaining: 0)
[22:09:58.995] Twistedmind's Power Word: Shield fades from Atriala (Remaining: 0)
[22:09:58.995] Twistedmind's Power Word: Shield fades from Razien (Remaining: 0)
[22:09:59.000] Twistedmind's Power Word: Shield fades from Midvane (Remaining: 0)
[22:09:59.000] Twistedmind's Power Word: Shield fades from Dex (Remaining: 0)
[22:10:12.354] Twistedmind's Power Word: Shield fades from Darkosiris (Remaining: 150530)

And now for a fictional story tale, take this as humor:
This really leaves me scratching my head. This "issue" was reported so early in beta, and it was repeatedly brought up. As it went live, we reported it again and swayed the entire community into making it part of our arsenal once more. And now it's been hotfixed with no notes or mention that it ever was an issue in the first place.

My suspicions were confirmed: we have a corrupted programmer at blizzard who is discreetly working to buff priests.
I wrote up stuff about the very early 5.2 datamined changes:

5.2 will bring a new raid tier. I haven't decided whether or not I should write up all of my personal findings and strategies for it on these official forums. If I do write them up, it might be on a more bloggy-type site.
Apologies for a semi-necro, but I was curious if anyone had any resources detailing playing disc as a dps/heal hybrid with straight atonement healing. I'm finding myself able to hit around 40k dps on most fights, which prompted me to investigate further.

Also, I feel like multiple 10-m fights would be easier with a sweet spot of 2.5 heals (2 is stressful and 3 feels like we're twiddling our thumbs). So, does anyone have any resources or links to discussion about this possible playstyle?
It's cool, this thread isn't seeing much discussion, but many priests are frequenting it every day, so I try to maintain it.

If you're looking to 2.5 heal fights, I'd actually recommend shadow for a 10 man. The utility of halo/divine star and vampiric embrace are better healer/dps cooldowns because they don't interrupt your dps (and you'd stop doing dps to do bigger heals if your were disc). And most fights that require 2.5 healers only require an extra boost on some hard aoe healing check, which would normally be covered with the 3 minute cooldowns, you just tend to run out of those in a 10 man. Shadow does good dps on the move, and performs well on multi-target fights (2-4 targets).

But if you're trying to maximize your single target disc dps, you want a different gearing strategy than the standard gem spirit>stack spirit mastery. Your going to want to gem int, and get your hands on as much haste and crit as you can, but you still need 8k spirit or more depending on the length of the fight and how much haste you have. The rotation you're going to be doing is Halo>Penance>Holy Fire>Smite. Always cast penance, even if it comes off cooldown during the holy fire dot, which you want to fit smites in to maximize the glyph of smite. You want to avoid casting power word: shield as it's a dps loss, but it's also the only method you have to regen mana outside of your pets. You want to talent mindbender and halo. This rotation ooms you depending on how much haste and spirit you have, so beware. This spec and rotation can cast on the move well enough with glyph of holy fire and glyph of penance, but its AOE dps is terrible. You have to completely stop your dps to cast actual heals.

If you want to break free from the shackles of being spirit dependent, try going holy spec for dps. Being in chakra: chastise makes going oom near impossible, so you can gear pure crit/haste. The rotation is Halo>SW:Death in Execute Range>Holy Fire>Smite. Mind Sear at 3 or more targets. This spec doesn't have atonement, but if you glyph holy fire, smite, and lightspring, you can still heal while dpsing with your halo, lightspring renews, and the clutch divine hymn when needed. This spec can't do anything on the move (cast shadow word: pain, which has a chance to miss), so that's its glaring weakness. You have to completely stop dpsing to do 'real' healing. This mind sear is actually the 'best' aoe dps of the 3 specs, but that's pretty situational depending on the level of the targets you're aoeing (for hit cap), how much mastery you have in shadow spec, and the number of targets you're aoeing.

Regarding the choice between Power Infusion and Twist of Fate: you have to be smart about which to use per fight. On fights with things dipping in execute range, you can get more Twist of Fate procs. But using Power Infusion with a potion (prepot on the pull or during the fight), works to boost your damage multiplicatively and puts it above twist of fate on single boss fights. You can also hit the haste soft cap with power infusion if you're purely gearing for haste, in which case the additional haste over 50% is wasted.

Recap: Shadow does the best dps while offhealing.
Disc does low dps and low healing (30%-40% of what a 'pure' healer/dps would do)
Holy does more dps than disc, but doesn't do healing, but has more mana while dpsing. Can't dps on the move, but it can do the best aoe dps of all 3 specs.
Much appreciated. I'm going to tinker some this week and see how it works out. I'm reasonably confident I can hit 45k DPS (and a resulting 45k HPS) through atonement, so I'm going to try that first.

If I find that's no good, I'll probably stick to shadow.

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