Issues of the MOP PVP rogues---Overview

Rogue
Let's face the facts here, we had it good in cataclysm. perhaps too good. Although I believe many classes were OP at the time, I do agree with Blizzard and much of the community that rogues needed a nerf, we were simply too powerful towards the end of catacylsm.

That being said, this is simply too much. I don't believe I've ever seen such a hard swing with the nerf bat, this class has simply been run into the ground with nerfs. We maintain good mobility and have decent self heals (although recuperate could still be better). However, the issue lies in our damage output. Backstabs, once the most powerful ability on a rogue's toolbar, deals damage the equivalent to whacking the enemy with a wet noodle in the back. Hemorrhage, a once powerful slice when you couldn't get behind the enemy, is like a jab with a chopstick.

Our only real damage lies in the 5 point eviscerate ability, which is tough to achieve due to our low damage in the first place. However, a 50k crit with eviscreate (which you'll only get when lucky) is still not on par with the damage that 5 points of backstab would give out. This class is now utter crap, perhaps due to the fact that NONE OF OUR TALENTS IMPROVE THE ABILITIES WE ENJOY TO USE. Don't know what blizzard can do other than just buf our abilities to do slightly more damage, so that we can stay on par with the rest of the classes. Eviscerate does a lot of damage, ,(not when compared to a warlocks 100k crits with chaos bolt) but it's simply not enough. any thoughts on how to improve the system. Would really like a blue to chime in here and give me the scoop.
SSDT: Same %$#@ different thread
This is true, these opinions have been voiced. However, it takes more than a popular forum to get through to someone in the chain of command who can help, it takes many rogues agreeing together and flooding the forum section DEDICATED to us, for someone in power to see it. That's what it takes, so that's what I'll do.
10/04/2012 07:19 PMPosted by Stabynarwhal
SSDT: Same %$#@ different thread


Yes it is, but we need to be consistent with our concerns. They do read these forums as much as some of you would like to believe they don't, they do. They have to in order to get a grasp of how the community feels about their class. 99% of the Rogue community feels that this class needs buffs, and 99% of that 99% share the same concerns; damage and survivability. Damage would be fine if circumstances allowed us to stay on target ~100% of the time, but that never happens in competitive PvP. As a Rogue right now the only uptime you have on your target is the opener and KS. The rest of the time you are busy wasting energy with BoS or Feint. Leaving us no way to deal substantial damage by the time we get back on our target.

People say it will be better once the ilvl goes up, and they are partially right. But they also have been counting on that for the last 4 expansions. With lower ilvl PvP gear and PvP playability of all classes Rogues will still be fighting for scraps the entire expansion, I think. We won't see such a dramatic increase in damage with the new PvP gear because it is lower item lvl now. We will gradually increase in damage along with everyone else (whose damage is leaps and bounds above ours.)
I'll leave this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kegQzuyrS_E
How do we have good mobility and decent self healing?
10/04/2012 07:32 PMPosted by Vish
People say it will be better once the ilvl goes up, and they are partially right. But they also have been counting on that for the last 4 expansions. With lower ilvl PvP gear and PvP playability of all classes Rogues will still be fighting for scraps the entire expansion, I think. We won't see such a dramatic increase in damage with the new PvP gear because it is lower item lvl now. We will gradually increase in damage along with everyone else (whose damage is leaps and bounds above ours.)


This^

Basically, we just can't keep up. People keep telling rogues to wait, and that we scale so well with the gear. We sucked in early cata and became great when the legendary daggers dropped, but Blizzard has identified that this is how we become such a great class, and have nerfed this gear down. We will no longer become more powerful than anybody else will through gear, the only way for this problem to be addressed, is not to wait and see. It's for blizzard to step up and fix something.
Also to the mage, that video was from Cataclysm. My opening thread statement clearly said that we had it too good in Cata, but times are different now.

Backstabs, once the most powerful ability on a rogue's toolbar, deals damage the equivalent to whacking the enemy with a wet noodle in the back.


Backstub should be renamed to Backmassage
10/04/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Zurial
we were simply too powerful towards the end of catacylsm.


This has a lot to do with Legendary daggers, VoS, and warriors being !@#$ s10/11. If Blizzard left us how we were minus smoke bomb on prep, we'd be fine now with warrior getting their buffs (which they needed), and 85 pve gear being redundant at lvl 90.

They took much away from rogues. Its amazing if you write it all down to see how much was removed or nerfed.

Rogues will be the warriors of s10/11 if things stay the same. Poor mobility, dumb'd down, clunky, long cool downs, no niche etc.Warrior does a rogues job better than the rogue can and does it with a lot more burst/damage. Rogues need to go back to having their own niches again instead of warrior/rogue being interchangable in a comp depending on which of these 2 classes is the most OP at the time.

ShS and prep on the same tier is terrible design too. Prep needs to be baseline and they need to design a third interesting mobility talent and make that the mobility tier.

Playing a rogue at the moment is about as interesting and fun as peeling a potato.
I enjoyed bc rogue(30-0-31 or hemo/step) and wotlk rogue(mut/prep) the most. Yes, people say cata rogue was op. But I hated it. It's the change of play style. I hate it so bad, till this day. Back in cata, at least rogue was playable. Now rogue is just plain pathetic. Play style is still bad and it's so weak. I just don't feel like playing my rogue at all.
10/04/2012 08:38 PMPosted by Nineil
Backstub should be renamed to Backmassage


^ This is true. It's a sad day when one of my most powerful weapon damageing abilites doesn't hit very hard, BUT, I feel it's due to the chance we have no crit anymore. Personally, what they should give Sub, is a passive ability that increases the crit chance of backstab, ambush, and hemo/eviserate by 40%. That would increase damage. I have to say, the most powerful ability atm, I feel, is Shadow Blades mixed with a S&D.
You could have rerolled from a rogue to a monk. IJS it could be worse.

SN I didn't play in Cata, the game lost its appeal however there are a couple rogues in the guild who had the Oranges and yes they were ridiculously stupid. Now my rogue is level 86 and I probably won't be leveling him anytime soon.

Do we have issues? I think so..but mostly the rogue class is boring, nothing interesting, nothing unique and just plain dull.
I have a lvl 90 Horde Rogue. In pvp battles I am continually killed, I can no longer defeat another player. I can only assist others who are taking on the other factions players.

I stay to the back or the sidelines in the fights. I only run in to fight when one of my team members looks like he or she might be able to take the enemy down, but if they aren't then I can't help them. If I go in to assist I will surely die. So I run off to look for a safer fight and allow my comrade to die.

Rogues have been relegated to being farmed by enemy players for honor points. All they can do now is pester other players with Sap or Blind. If they dare show themselves, it's all over.

It's one thing to get nerfed, but it's another thing when you see your class get turned into a bunch of useless weaklings who have to run and hide from all other classes in order to survive.

Players no longer fear a Rogue attack from the shadows. Maybe Blizz wanted to make the other classes feel safer while playing the game.

When questing I've even had enemy players 3 lvls lower come and attack me. Thanks goodness they didnt remove our Vanish ability but even then I have to speed away before my body becomes visible because of some bleed effect or other punch they hit me with.

The Rogue is now the official Wimp of WoW and everybody knows it.
10/04/2012 07:32 PMPosted by Vish
Yes it is, but we need to be consistent with our concerns


ide just like to point out that this is probably THE ONLY one that says mobility is ok and self heals are decent.

The only thing that a real knowledgeable rogue can agree on with other rogues is that our damage is the least of our worries right now. we could get by with what we have in that aspect if we didnt have to choose between movement or utility. Our self heals are trash too.

i dont want to get started, this post is just wrong. please discard it.

he probly never played a real rogue, just FOTM'd it and grabbed legendaries and thought that was normal.
I'm sick of hearing that we were OP at the end of cataclysm, its overstated and its irrelevant as of patch 5.0.
Blizzard has lost their fricken mind if they think rogue PvP is A-Ok when other classes can "tank" 5+ players with out dropping below 90% HP... and what used to be rogue only abilities like stealth are giving to huntards (not that their 5 pets was much of a advantage either COUGH) i mean really what happened to DRs for stuns and fears? other classes have enough burst to rock you down before you can get out of chain CCs (isn't that the reason that rogues got nerfed in the first place everyone crying that a rogue can stunlock and kill you?)

It would be nice if PvP devs would:

1. be over the age of 14
2. be made to play all classes they develop for
rogue damage is fine... its where it should be... its just the rogue class not being updated as the game goes while other classes see new and improved ways of mobility... survival needs to be upgraded or certain classes need to be toned down... almost impossible to find a rated when 3 warriors are trying to get in.
12/04/2012 06:54 AMPosted by Daÿna
rogue damage is fine... its where it should be... its just the rogue class not being updated as the game goes while other classes see new and improved ways of mobility... survival needs to be upgraded or certain classes need to be toned down... almost impossible to find a rated when 3 warriors are trying to get in.


This is the biggest issue for me. Our new skills aren't creative in the least and are not that helpful (save shadow blades) I'm still scratching my head on their reasoning for implementing shadow walk, but I digress.

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