Refining the WW attack priority?

Monk
So... I'm not level 90, which I know makes a big difference what with scaling and everything, and I'd love to see someone do the math for level 90 and raid ready stats, but these are the thoughts I have about possibly refining things.

Spinning Fire Blossom does more damage per chi than BoK... by a lot. At level 79, my BoK averages 3200 (factoring in the DoT,) and SFB averages 2500, which means 5000 for the 2 chi BoK costs. HOWEVER, BoK is still preferable in many circumstances, for simple reason of not wanting to energy cap, and in many cases, trying to use the extra globals on SFB will energy cap you (or waste chi if you jab when you shouldn't.)

So, with that being said... I've been adding SFB into my priority with the contingency that energizing brew is on CD and not active, and I have less than 50 energy. That's where you start to see lots of extra globals, and at that point you may as well use them on SFB over BoK.

tl;dr: BoK does more damage per global, SFB does more damage per chi. Use accordingly

Edit: I had another thought... For 3 chi, my FoF does about 8.5k. Only 1k more than SFBx3, but recount is telling me that my auto-attacks do about 700 dps. On a 4 second channel, that means another 2800 damage I'm losing out on, roughly, meaning that spamming SFB would take a half second longer, cost the same amount of resources, and do about 1.5k more damage (for me at my level... of course.) So... drop FoF?
Besides the rare occasion you need a ranged attack, BoK is better in every way.
So... I'm not level 90, which I know makes a big difference what with scaling and everything, and I'd love to see someone do the math for level 90 and raid ready stats, but these are the thoughts I have about possibly refining things.

Spinning Fire Blossom does more damage per chi than BoK... by a lot. At level 79, my BoK averages 3200 (factoring in the DoT,) and SFB averages 2500, which means 5000 for the 2 chi BoK costs. HOWEVER, BoK is still preferable in many circumstances, for simple reason of not wanting to energy cap, and in many cases, trying to use the extra globals on SFB will energy cap you (or waste chi if you jab when you shouldn't.)

So, with that being said... I've been adding SFB into my priority with the contingency that energizing brew is on CD and not active, and I have less than 50 energy. That's where you start to see lots of extra globals, and at that point you may as well use them on SFB over BoK.

tl;dr: BoK does more damage per global, SFB does more damage per chi. Use accordingly

Edit: I had another thought... For 3 chi, my FoF does about 8.5k. Only 1k more than SFBx3, but recount is telling me that my auto-attacks do about 700 dps. On a 4 second channel, that means another 2800 damage I'm losing out on, roughly, meaning that spamming SFB would take a half second longer, cost the same amount of resources, and do about 1.5k more damage (for me at my level... of course.) So... drop FoF?


This is something I suspect will continue to be brought up until the majority of monks at least move into Cataclysm content. Its a scaling issue. Weapons scaling between expansions is outrageous, especially moving into Cata. This is why SFB was spine shattering when you first got it in Classic leveling and has now slowly started being caught by BoK.

The minute you hit 80, Zen Pilgrimage and get your free Cataclysm blue weapon, SFB will cease to be relevant. As a level 90 Monk I can assure you my SFB damage is only comparable to my BoK when it has 2 GCDs and is greater than 10 yards which means I had to shut off my autoattack. Meaning its NEVER comparable to BoK in DPS terms. The reason SFB is performing so well for you right now is because your weapons suck. Its not your fault, its that you aren't in Pandaria dual wielding 2000+ DPS weapons.

Similar things are being said about Blood Boil in the DK forums. Its the godsend that renders all other abilities useless... until you get a decent weapon in more current content (early Cata).

*EDIT* Oh and as for FoF, yes its useless even at 90. It shuts off your auto-attack, its very expensive on the chi, and is easily interrupted (knockbacks, stuns, etc.). If your tank moves the boss a fraction, you just wasted the cooldown. Under the most ideal of circumstances FoF is between a 2-5% damage increase. If even one single tick gets cancelled for any reason its a DPS loss. If you get KB'd on the initial hit, its a DPS disaster. The current trends are just flat out don't use it. Experienced monks will still occasionally use it to nab a couple extra points of DPS, but imo its not worth the risk. Its not just about predicting boss mechanics, its about having a tank that keeps the boss totally still.
10/06/2012 02:10 AMPosted by Hhfylbtbal
Besides the rare occasion you need a ranged attack, BoK is better in every way.


No it actually isn't. SFB does more damage than BoK - the dot effect at 90. Meaning, I keep up the dot (usually through mastery procs or rotating it in) and then use SFB as my main chi spender. Using SFB also means a smoother rotation since you are using less chi per second so you most likely will have chi for RSK when it is off of cooldown.

My current priority is RSK > Tiger palm if not at 3 stacks > Fists of Fury > Mastery procs > Jab if energy high, chi low > BoK no dot on target > SFB > BoK dot on target > Tiger Palm

It's very smooth, does the most damage, and should be used.
Besides the rare occasion you need a ranged attack, BoK is better in every way.


No it actually isn't. SFB does more damage than BoK - the dot effect at 90. Meaning, I keep up the dot (usually through mastery procs or rotating it in) and then use SFB as my main chi spender. Using SFB also means a smoother rotation since you are using less chi per second so you most likely will have chi for RSK when it is off of cooldown.

My current priority is RSK > Tiger palm if not at 3 stacks > Fists of Fury > Mastery procs > Jab if energy high, chi low > BoK no dot on target > SFB > BoK dot on target > Tiger Palm

It's very smooth, does the most damage, and should be used.


You're doing it wrong. Because of the new DoT mechanics its difficult to clip the DoT on blackout kick. Just tested against a dummy and my BoK does an avg of 42253. I had an average of 3.77 ticks of blackout kick DoT per blackout kick with 2882 avg tick. This means the average blackout kick did 53118 damage.

Spinning Fire Blossom did an average of 19984 damage meaning even when the DoT isn't factored in BoK is better by 5.41% per Chi and 24.8% per Chi when it is factored in.

It gets worse though. My 5-minute parse was self-buffed. In a raid setting my SFB would be benefiting from 8% spell damage, but my BoK would be buffed by 12% ArP and 4% physical damage meaning BoK scales infinitely better than SFB. Then there's the issue that SFB requires 2 GCDs instead of BoK's 1, so in an energy capping setting where we are GCD locked such as Energizing Brew, Heroism, or high Combo Breaker procs the DPS of BoK vastly outweights SFB because the SFB rotation requires an extra GCD that isn't available, thus wasting energy.

BoK is, in fact, better in every way.

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