Dailies are starting to burn me out ..

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Personally I think the biggest problem with the reputation system is they kind of lost control of it.

You want to have a gated reputation system. This in itself isn't bad. Then you want to put powerful enchants that raiders need on the ones behind the gate. This, while completely contradictory to what was originally stated as the reason helm enchants were removed from the game, could still potentially be ok.

Where they failed is there are optional ones, and really non-optional ones. And the kicker here is it's very easy to tell the difference. Does the daily you're doing reward two lesser charms of good fortune and less than 200 rep per completion? Ok, that's one you have to do. Does the daily you're doing reward one lesser charm of good fortune and more than 300, sometimes close to 500 rep per? Ok, that's an optional one that reward something fun.

There-in lies the overall problem with this sytem: These two ideas should be reversed. A gated rep, and then rep behind it that is needed for good enchants, if those rewarded 1 token and 300 rep, we wouldn't be seeing a thread like this. Fun stuff is fun stuff, but can require a good amount of work to get, like the Netherwing faction in TBC. Beating your head against a wall to get good enchants, or good buffs for your raid is not good game design, and this is something you guys realized years ago.


I was initially confused when I started reading, but now I understand. What you're saying is, rep grinds like Order of the Cloud Serpent (mostly fun) grant 300-500 rep a quest. But rep grinds like Golden Lotus only grant 100-200 rep a quest, and are far more grind-y and difficult to complete. Yes, that's my experience, too. I literally cannot bring myself to go back and do more Golden Lotus dailies, because I hate them so much...and they give so little rep it sometimes feels pointless.


Good stuff, thanks for the link. :)


Has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The topic is dailies are boring. That link says you still need to do them you just don't have to do as many as you think you do. So what. That's like telling me I can get punched in the face less than I thought. I still get punched in the face a lot.

Just give us the options we were told were going to get in this expansion. I don't care about the gear, I grind the dailies for the crafting recipes and they are burning me out too.


Ok, I'm with ya on the crafting, but I'll take it as a trade-off to how easy they made it to gain levels from 525-600.

On the Daily=boring thing, well can't really argue with you there either. I will say though that I agree with Lore in that there should be SOME work required to get the gear. And you say you want choices, well LFD and LFR are there, and you can get enough gear there to do Normal raids(if that's your goal), and by the time you've actually earned enough VP to buy a couple of valor pieces the VP gear won't look as good, since you'll be getting gear from normal raiding.

So basically, if you find the dailies so boring, STOP DOING SO MANY. I believe that was the point Lore was trying to make in the video. he even mentions how he hates dailies too, so he's on your side on the boring part.
Perhaps blizz should put the 25 daily cap back on so that people realize they don't need to do EVERY daily EVER, EVERYDAY of the week to get to revered as fast as possible.

*rolls his eyes*


I don't think the lack of a daily cap is the problem, actually. I think the fact that they gated valor gear, recipes, patterns, and enchants behind rep is the problem. That is what makes them feel "required."
10/12/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Blackgoddess
And this is why many casual players have already left the game. Because to raid they still need the same gear as hardcore raiders to be competative. Stop trying to defend a flawed system bashiok. Blizzard failed with the thousands of grinds in this game. Just admit it and fix the problem.


Casual players are not leaving players who have an entitlement issue are.

If your a casual player why are you worried about competing with hardcore players?

The system isn't flawed you expecting easy mode is.

Either quit crying like the brat kid in the toy aisle or quit WoW and take the problems you cause elsewhere.


Says the level 64 that hasn't had to do any dailies. You have no right to be in this discussion. Hit 90 and do few weeks of dailies and come back and tell us that the system isn't flawed because it most certainly is flawed.
Personally I think the biggest problem with the reputation system is they kind of lost control of it.

You want to have a gated reputation system. This in itself isn't bad. Then you want to put powerful enchants that raiders need on the ones behind the gate. This, while completely contradictory to what was originally stated as the reason helm enchants were removed from the game, could still potentially be ok.

Where they failed is there are optional ones, and really non-optional ones. And the kicker here is it's very easy to tell the difference. Does the daily you're doing reward two lesser charms of good fortune and less than 200 rep per completion? Ok, that's one you have to do. Does the daily you're doing reward one lesser charm of good fortune and more than 300, sometimes close to 500 rep per? Ok, that's an optional one that reward something fun.

There-in lies the overall problem with this sytem: These two ideas should be reversed. A gated rep, and then rep behind it that is needed for good enchants, if those rewarded 1 token and 300 rep, we wouldn't be seeing a thread like this. Fun stuff is fun stuff, but can require a good amount of work to get, like the Netherwing faction in TBC. Beating your head against a wall to get good enchants, or good buffs for your raid is not good game design, and this is something you guys realized years ago.


I was initially confused when I started reading, but now I understand. What you're saying is, rep grinds like Order of the Cloud Serpent (mostly fun) grant 300-500 rep a quest. But rep grinds like Golden Lotus only grant 100-200 rep a quest, and are far more grind-y and difficult to complete. Yes, that's my experience, too. I literally cannot bring myself to go back and do more Golden Lotus dailies, because I hate them so much...and they give so little rep it sometimes feels pointless.


Even choosing to stop doing a reputation when you get what you want isn't bad. What's bad is I'm cloud serpent exalted(and there's an easy trick to do this within a day or two of hitting 90 if you were fast in doing so), and I *just* started working on shadopan and celestials. Why? How was this a decision that was thought to be a good idea?

I liked the idea of the disk mounts, now everyone uses it within a week of the game going live. I liked the idea of cloud serpents, but now everyone's using them already as well. But as a raider if you want good enchants for your gear? Oh you're not even halfway done with that yet!
10/12/2012 12:24 PMPosted by Hugeweiner
Great I can't believe I paid 40 bucks for this abuse from Blizzard. Can't even do the first raid without doing dailies first? That's like McDonnalds telling me "you can't have your fries until you eat your burger."


More like McDonald's taking your money for your fries, burger and a shake, and then not letting you have any of it until you scrub the toilets.
10/12/2012 12:49 PMPosted by Chie
I liked the idea of the disk mounts, now everyone uses it within a week of the game going live. I liked the idea of cloud serpents, but now everyone's using them already as well. But as a raider if you want good enchants for your gear? Oh you're not even halfway done with that yet!


The rep grind for Shado-Pan... I cringed when I saw the rep I was getting for turning in the quests. Those quests take me forever, even with the helper. I simply can't pull large packs.
That's not true. There are guilds that pull out fantastic progression with only 2 raid nights a week.


Those guilds are definitely in the minority and as people are soooo fond of saying around here blizzard shouldn't be catering the game to a minority of players.

That said, those same players would probably do BETTER under the system I'm proposing than the current system. They can now log in and decide if they want to do dailies for rep or just run a few dungeons with their friends.

What exactly is wrong with giving players a CHOICE in terms of how they want to grind their reputations?
And this is why many casual players have already left the game. Because to raid they still need the same gear as hardcore raiders to be competative. Stop trying to defend a flawed system bashiok. Blizzard failed with the thousands of grinds in this game. Just admit it and fix the problem.


Casual players are not leaving players who have an entitlement issue are.

If your a casual player why are you worried about competing with hardcore players?

The system isn't flawed you expecting easy mode is.

Either quit crying like the brat kid in the toy aisle or quit WoW and take the problems you cause elsewhere.

This! Casuals don't care to raid on the level of the hardcore, they take the game slowly and work with what they got and enjoy it with their friends and family.

Also, are people not queuing for LFR? I just ran heroics all week with my friends and we all now meet the min lvl req for lfr. After we get a few pieces we will do our first raid of the expac soon. I also just hit 90 last week so I'm ready to jump into the raid scene again :)
I absolutely abhor dailies because they are boring and mindless.

Now you know my stance I have to say Blizzard have tried (and succeeded) in reducing the boredom levels of doing dailies. I get 4-6 quests in a region, complete those smooshing monsters or picking up things, or tapping trees, or fishing detritus, or telling Gina why she can't eat my damn food for the 50th time; and I complete them. I don't feel as bored because I can roll in, get it done and only get frustrated by the horrible, HORRIBLE bugs blizzard have allowed to creep in as if they were an FTP game by Turbine.

I do not enjoy dailies, but the way they rotate and have many hubs so people are more spread out (unlike the horrendous firelands ones) I am strangely NOT burnt out by them yet, which I should be due to hating dailies.

Having said all this, I'm not a huge fan of having to do dailies if I want the 3 extra loot rolls a week, even if Im sitting on close to 500 additional charms. I do feel perhaps blizzard should add 5 charms per scenario for those who'd prefer not to do dailies; whether it's a time concern or it's 6 months down the road and they fancy an alternative.
For the people who continue doing dailies after reaching valor cap, is there something that could possibly be done for an alternate reward once we can't receive anymore valor points?


I made a few requests on beta to make our currency reward a choice. Let us choose between 5 valor or conquest. If caps are reached, down convert it to justice/honor. Giving us that choice would encourage more people to do the dailies, perhaps even doing them even after finishing the reputation grind.
To not be overly negative, the idea behind the things needed for a reputation ending at revered and then the fun stuff being exalted was a brilliant one. The removal of the helm enchants and the reason we were given, and then to have important enchants on two factions gated behind another one, ALL of which only give a little over 100 rep per turn in, is just a bad system, and it smacks of "one hand not talking to the other" in the developer team.

Still, I find dailies fun, but grow tired of hearing the groaning every day in guild chat. Some like being farmers is funny, but the complaints once people finally unlocked the shadopan, yikes.
I've always looked more at PvP, but just dipping my toe into the PvE end-game is it really the case that you need rep to spend valor points?

I don't get why you need rep to spend valor points? And why we can't get a tabard to earn rep with the half-dozen new factions while playing something more enjoyable, like in cata.

Why are we going backwards from cata on earning faction rep? Bring back the tabards that earn rep!
10/12/2012 12:43 PMPosted by Glítch
There are non casual players who can only log on say 6 days a week. Some even 5, they may play hardcore mon-fri, but are away from their computer on weekends.


Okay? What does that have to do with giving us the option to acquire rep via dungeons? Maybe some of those people who can't log on as much would appreciate being able to log in and be able to run a few dungeons with their friends for rep instead of doing dailies?


The source of the diversion was this quote by you.

10/12/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Glítch
It would also negatively impact people who don't play everyday by causing them to fall behind if they don't cap their rep for the week in dungeons.


If they don't play often why do they care if they fall behind?

Either way I don't think bending over backwards to accommodate people who hardly play the game is the best idea.


Basically dallies are not suited well to people who cannot log in everyday to do them.

You basically said these people "hardly play". I basically said they may play a lot just not every day.
To not be overly negative, the idea behind the things needed for a reputation ending at revered and then the fun stuff being exalted was a brilliant one. The removal of the helm enchants and the reason we were given, and then to have important enchants on two factions gated behind another one, ALL of which only give a little over 100 rep per turn in, is just a bad system, and it smacks of "one hand not talking to the other" in the developer team.

Still, I find dailies fun, but grow tired of hearing the groaning every day in guild chat. Some like being farmers is funny, but the complaints once people finally unlocked the shadopan, yikes.

This is my problem as well. I would like to work on just Shadow-Pan right now but I can't even start them because I need to get Golden Lotus to Revered. Even worst was the fact that for 4 days after hitting 90 there was a bugged quest preventing me from unlocking the dailies and on another day the Stop the ritual quest was bugged with none of the ritual guys spawning and so I couldn't do the second half of the dailies. If any quest bugs out during these guys it's just more days that I can't get to the faction I care about.

Edited for clarity.
For you folks thinking that the dailies are mandatory:

[url="http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?80097-The-Weekly-Marmot-Reputation-Dailies"]The-Weekly-Marmot-Reputation-Dailies[/url]


Good stuff, thanks for the link. :)


Seriously Bashiok, again, this already happened before in Cata and we know how that ended.

Listen to the community, dont be so egocentric to think you do everything right and you never make mistakes.

This IS A MISTAKE, and you are not too late to solve it. Give alternatives to the players, cap the amount of rep you can get in one day if you dont want to increase the speed of getting it, BUT GIVE US ALTERNATIVES.

Tabards, mobs giving rep, mobs dropping items that can be exhanged for rep like coilfang armaments or dark iron residue, the alternatives are a lot, but dont FORCE us to do the dailies.

And yes, they are mandatory, because you guys had the great idea to tie EVERYTHING to those reputations that can only be increase by dailies.

Professions (both primary and secondary), valor gear, mount hunt, vanity items hun, charms, everything is tied to those reputations so you are efefctively forced to do them no matter what activity you enjoy doing.

Please, dont make the same past mistakes, listen to us, we are giving you valid concerns, forcing us to do dailies by tying everything to rep that can only be earned by dailies is forcing us to do them, and using one rep as a cockblock is a worse idea even.
10/12/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Dspite
Bring back the tabards that earn rep!


i vote for it!
Perhaps blizz should put the 25 daily cap back on so that people realize they don't need to do EVERY daily EVER, EVERYDAY of the week to get to revered as fast as possible.

*rolls his eyes*


I don't think the lack of a daily cap is the problem, actually. I think the fact that they gated valor gear, recipes, patterns, and enchants behind rep is the problem. That is what makes them feel "required."


The problem is that daily quests provide casual oriented players (non-raiders like me!) an alternative way of gearing up. It is an alternative path of progress. There are still other ways to gear up fully.

Right now, dailies aren't required for gearing up. Heroic dungeons are sufficient... Unless if they're attempting to bypass normal raids and go right to heroic raids. In which case, I have no sympathy for them. The grind isn't required and they're only doing this to themselves.

I really hope blizzard holds onto what they have here.

KEEP IN MIND: The moment these reps become quick and easy to obtain is the moment everyone is running around in full tier gear. I'm not against this, but I do think there's a journey. I can just see the hardcore leet's tears now.

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