You're gonna wanna find out what the conversion values are point wise for each stat and at this point you're getting into some deep min maxing that may just not be worth it unless you're raiding professionally or looking to get sponsored.

If you're not glyphing Combustion then you should be at 15%. Unfortunately, in entry-level (blue) gear to accomplish this you pretty much have to drop below 25% crit raid buffed which is not really an option with the spec.

There's a very good spreadsheet for haste plateaus here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AsDL8HE-bGDVdFFVWlIzbzQ5RFJJZGFyQ25xZmFYa0E&f=true&noheader=false&gid=39

I'm not really sure how the upcoming Combustion changes will affect mastery vs haste. Traditionally, I've always preferred haste even with them being roughly equal as I feel it gives more versatility with the faster resulting casts.

When you are over: Int>Crit>Haste>Mastery>Hit

Crit will remain better than haste untill next tier. Once you get 23-25 percent crit haste becomes the better option. Int beats out all though except for hit when you aren't hit capped.

Crit and haste will remain better, with them swapping back and forth on which one is better depending on your current stats, but dont focus on either of these 2 untill your hit capped.

10/12/2012 07:32 AMPosted by OhamCrit will remain better than haste untill next tier. Once you get 23-25 percent crit haste becomes the better option. Int beats out all though except for hit when you aren't hit capped.

Source? I haven't come across anything that says that Haste ever pulls ahead.

Int > Hit > Crit > Haste > Mastery. Breakpoints are fairly irrelevant.Crit will remain better than haste untill next tier. Once you get 23-25 percent crit haste becomes the better option. Int beats out all though except for hit when you aren't hit capped.

Source? I haven't come across anything that says that Haste ever pulls ahead.

Um, not a full on source. Just going off what I was reading on some of Lhivera's posts in the damage dealing forums and some of my own sims.

Once you get to around 33 percent crit I belive haste and crit are almost dead even, crit will eventually start to have diminishing returns. We may not hit those kinda stats for quite a while though, so who knows.

We really dont know. With the new combustion change haste will be somewhat decent. We will have to see with patch 5.01. In the meantime though. Yea, cap hit, then focus on Int and Crit imo.

As i said though, the next patch is changing combustion, which may make mastery/haste a bit more 'wantable'.

If youre choosing invocation, you absolutely want more haste. The difference between a 4 second evoc and a 5.5+ sec evoc every 40 seconds is dramatic.

Sacrificing some crit for enough haste to get by is effective. Sacrifice too much and youre low, dont sacrifice enough and youre low. Better off playing frost at this gear level.

Frost requires 28% crit on bosses btw.

10/12/2012 09:52 AMPosted by OhamYea 33 is the goal im shooting for. I know frost has a soft crit cap of like 25 percent, but im not quite sure when we'll start seeing diminishing returns on crit as fire. Normally we dont for many raid tiers.

28% cap in raids, but you don't shoot for it. Haste is #1 for Frost.

10/12/2012 10:26 AMPosted by BitmadIf youre choosing invocation, you absolutely want more haste. The difference between a 4 second evoc and a 5.5+ sec evoc every 40 seconds is dramatic.

The sims still prioritize Crit over Haste in an Invocation build for Fire. I don't see you getting the 50% haste you need for a 4 second Evo any time soon.

Ive heard get the first haste cap of 3188 for the extra tick on Pyro/Combustion

Ive heard get to 25% crit then go for the 3188 haste cap

Personally I went, haste cap, then crit. With raid buffs I can 12.5% haste and 25% crit.

Opening tiers are the worst. crey crey10/12/2012 12:33 PMPosted by MageskiYea 33 is the goal im shooting for. I know frost has a soft crit cap of like 25 percent, but im not quite sure when we'll start seeing diminishing returns on crit as fire. Normally we dont for many raid tiers.

28% cap in raids, but you don't shoot for it. Haste is #1 for Frost.If youre choosing invocation, you absolutely want more haste. The difference between a 4 second evoc and a 5.5+ sec evoc every 40 seconds is dramatic.

The sims still prioritize Crit over Haste in an Invocation build for Fire. I don't see you getting the 50% haste you need for a 4 second Evo any time soon.

My current stats are

Intellect>Hit>Crit>Mastery>Haste

I don't know how much damage I'd be doing if I have more hate than the Mastery. But I don't have a problem topping my meter in LFR, heroic dungeons, and senarios.

I hear you, Haste is more superior than Mastery since more cast means more chances of free pyroblasts, and more ticks

But wouldn't it make some sense if you have more Mastery, it'll burn for higher numbers meaning more damage.

I would like to know if the differences are slim, so slim that I won't even notice the difference. I do have the Herb professional haste buff which is cool.

I believe I have 24.6% crit with intellect and moten armor buff, 3.6% Haste, and 14% Mastery. Hit is at 15.13% I think. Hell, I'm for real. I do great damage in all boss fights, would more haste really improve my dps?

I believe I have 24.6% crit with intellect and moten armor buff, 3.6% Haste, and 14% Mastery. Hit is at 15.13% I think. Hell, I'm for real. I do great damage in all boss fights, would more haste really improve my dps?

so reforging out of mastery into haste until 5% haste would mean 10% haste in raid (assuming you have the 5% haste buff) which means 1 extra tick of combustion. so at one point i think mastery will have to be dominate over haste because the higher ignite tick the higher combustion but at what point does haste become greater then mastery, and when do you have enough ticks of combustion that mastery pulls ahead? I sim would solve this i think sadly it all depends on RNG and how many crits from pyroblast you can get off, plus what your SP is when you crit... damn fire mages being so complicated.

I believe I have 24.6% crit with intellect and moten armor buff, 3.6% Haste, and 14% Mastery. Hit is at 15.13% I think. Hell, I'm for real. I do great damage in all boss fights, would more haste really improve my dps?

so reforging out of mastery into haste until 5% haste would mean 10% haste in raid (assuming you have the 5% haste buff) which means 1 extra tick of combustion. so at one point i think mastery will have to be dominate over haste because the higher ignite tick the higher combustion but at what point does haste become greater then mastery, and when do you have enough ticks of combustion that mastery pulls ahead? I sim would solve this i think sadly it all depends on RNG and how many crits from pyroblast you can get off, plus what your SP is when you crit... damn fire mages being so complicated.

The first tick of Combustion actually comes at 5% Haste, and the second tick comes at 15% Haste (assuming you're working with the unglyphed version of Combustion)

When working with Haste, you can

*never*add them. The final answer isn't too much different, but it does make a difference when gearing. These Haste values must be multiplied. To find how much Haste you have:

1.05 (5% Haste buff) *1.05 (Haste from gear) = 1.05 * 1.05= 1.1025

So basically, you'd have 10.25% Haste, which means you're actually getting more Haste than you need. This probably isn't a big issue unless you don't want to go past the Haste needed.

For those curious about the exact amount of Haste needed from gear to reach exactly 5% Haste, in order to reach that first Combustion tick:

1.05* Y=1.05, where Y represents the Haste from gear. So solving for this, it turns out you only need 1% Haste from gear to reach the first Combustion tick.

10/12/2012 09:41 PMPosted by BitmadOpening tiers are the worst. crey crey

this. for now crit is going to be better until new levels of haste (and crit) open up to us in later tiers.

10/15/2012 08:40 AMPosted by Hokonosocrit > hit > int > haste > mastery. this never changes at any gear lvl. at later gear lvls you can move around haste at hit the cap and forge the rest into mastery, but for now all excess stats go to haste as you wont reach the cap and crit has no cap soft or otherwise.

What source says Crit is greater than Hit? Hit has always been more important to reach the cap than Crit, Haste, and Mastery.