Spellsteal

Mage
Why do we even have this spell still? Seem nothing it really worth taking and what little we can spell steal in raids you go and remove it.

"It is no longer possible to Spellsteal Blazing Speed from Zandalari Fire-Dancers. Using Spellsteal will still dispel the effect."


Just remove it and give us a dispel instead and there no more need to hot fix every OP magic buff in the game.
Well... you see, different classes are different. We all don't have the same abilities...

I mean, if we're gonna go your route, why not remove all spells/abilities from the game and reduce everyone to a single action that does the same amount of damage for everyone involved...
Just change the spell to include "Many magic buffs which cannot be stolen will instead be dispelled."

And you're all set, still better than any other offensive dispel.
spellsteal now is mainly a heal for pvp.
Well i mean if we have a dispel, might as well have a chance to sometimes spellsteal.

I mean, i Like peallstealing stuff from mobs
How will I tank Krosh Firehand or the Mage boss on Illidari Council? :(

PS: Blizzard, if you ever want to remove spellsteal and give us a Purge (Which would be total homogenizing), could you at least remove the stealing portion JUST against players (for PvP reasons)? At least let us keep it outside of PvP :(
Well i mean if we have a dispel, might as well have a chance to sometimes spellsteal.

I mean, i Like peallstealing stuff from mobs


Ya but the thing we can steal unless its a class spell in PvP gets nerfed so its like only use is in PVP not everyone plays this game for PvP only.
10/12/2012 11:02 PMPosted by Rayo
Ya but the thing we can steal unless its a class spell in PvP gets nerfed so its like only use is in PVP not everyone plays this game for PvP only.


The course of action you are advocating does not comply with my perceived notion of the best decisions that could be made for the sake of this game.

How unbelievably narrow-minded can you be? "It's not good in pve and I don't pvp so I don't care if it's good there, remove it"

Please, remove the blinders from your eyes so that you can understand how ridiculous this idea is.
It's very useful when doing your dailies, there's a LOT of mobs that have stealable buffs.
Well, I am tending to agree with the OP now. They are removing our ability to spellsteal the haste buff from the mobs before Spiritbinder. "It will still be dispelled but the mage will not get the buff".

What's the point. If Spellsteal is only going to dispel some things and you never know what you can or can't actually steal, just make it a dispel and get it over with.
10/13/2012 08:00 AMPosted by Incendium
What's the point. If Spellsteal is only going to dispel some things and you never know what you can or can't actually steal, just make it a dispel and get it over with.


The point is that this game is not played solely by you dragonslayers. I refer you to my previous post.
10/13/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Ærthelia
The point is that this game is not played solely by you dragonslayers. I refer you to my previous post.


Aren't there buffs in PvP they allow you to dispel but not steal?

I use Spellsteal a lot in PvP and most of the time I don't get anything for it
You must be kidding. SS pyro proc or fof proc is so much fun.
10/13/2012 10:01 AMPosted by Aou
You must be kidding. SS pyro proc or fof proc is so much fun.


you can't steal FoF. maybe you're thinking of Brain Freeze procs.

Aren't there buffs in PvP they allow you to dispel but not steal?

I use Spellsteal a lot in PvP and most of the time I don't get anything for it


The only things I can think of are Alter Time, and it's obvious why that can't be stolen (shouldn't be dispellable in the first place, but that's another matter) and spiritwalker's grace. nature's swiftness/ancestral swiftness MIGHT just be dispelled, though the more I think about it the more I can't be sure. Of course bubble and ice block are technically on that list as well, but those are only dispellable through special means (shattering throw and mass dispel.) Everything else, unless I'm mistaken, can be stolen if it can be dispelled.

EDIT: Tested it, spiritwalker's grace IS stolen, nature's swiftness and ancestral swiftness are just dispelled.

If you're not getting anything out of it, then you aren't using it right. stealing HoTs, other mages barriers/procs/PoM, stealing freedom/protection/sacrifice/divine favor from pallies, the list goes on. I won't list all the useful things you can steal, because anyone with decent pvp experience knows how useful it is.

Sometimes the buffs we steal aren't useful to us at all, so it might as well be a dispel and we (the pvp mages) don't complain. Even though having the buff does nothing for us (other than act as dispel protection,) it's a buff the enemy doesn't have. So even if they don't let you spellsteal something, opting to just remove it instead, is that so bad? It's a buff that needed to go anyway. To make it a dispel for everyone simply because it doesn't do what you want is ignorant, not to mention homogenization, as another poster put it. The game has been simplified enough, it doesn't need more of it.

All I'm asking is that you expand your view a bit. The game doesn't revolve around you or what you do with it. There are many facets of this game that appeal to all different kinds of people. If everything was tailored to your stance of "this doesn't do what I want it to do, so it needs to be removed/changed" Then the game would only cater to a select group. Sure, this one change wouldn't be the end of the world, but why should it be changed, other than because you say so?
10/13/2012 03:39 PMPosted by Ærthelia
To make it a dispel for everyone simply because it doesn't do what you want is ignorant, not to mention homogenization, as another poster put it. The game has been simplified enough, it doesn't need more of it.


Spare me your lectures, I am not on these forums to discuss the special snowflake syndrome, nor am I a "PvE elitist" who thinks the world revolves around them.

It is pretty hard to see from one PoV when you are standing somewhere else completely, that is why it is good to discuss things, so you can see it from different angles. When you post like you have, with that attitude, it helps no one, and only pushes people on the other side of the argument further from your side.

I can see why people want it in PvP, and was under the impression that many buffs were only dispellable and not stealable. I know there are a few, but I have no link to prove it, despite my looking. If I find a source I will be sure to share it though. It does annoy me when they make buffs "unstealable" regardless of PvP or PvE. It is like taking candy away from a kid.
You can still spellsteal the mask buff off the big bad boss dude gives you like 90% damage buff.
The "dispelled rather than stolen" buffs are the exception in pvp, not the rule. There are few. I already mentioned a couple, I'm not saying you're wrong and that they don't exist. I don't know of any other than what I mentioned, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were a couple more.

You seem to think my attitude was out of line, I disagree. I got my point across. The only part of my discussion in this thread that I'd see as having too much attitude was my first post, and it wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the OP, and I believe it was perfectly fitting.

Seriously now. The argument here is "lots of buffs in pve keep getting changed so that they can't be stolen, so they should get rid of spellsteal and give mages a dispel." I just... really? I do not understand how you can come to that conclusion other than by having a very limited viewpoint, or even worse, by willingly disregarding pvp entirely.
One good reason for changing the mechanic of Spellsteal to simply dispel is because it is confusing to players, especially new players, when a spell only works the way the tooltip describes some of the time.

Obviously we may not be there yet, but if they keep making more and more abilities unable to be stolen (and instead simply dispelled), then the tooltip of Spellsteal will be misleading.

Blizzard doesn't seem to like the idea of having abilities work differently in different situations, but that is what they are doing with Spellsteal. What is worse is that it isn't even a "works this way in PvP, this way in PvE" type of thing, this is universal to both, and is on a spell by spell basis.

Now don't get me wrong, I love stealing buffs from other players and mobs, but if they are going to start picking and choosing what buffs can and can't be stolen it just doesn't make sense to me to keep Spellsteal in it's current form.
So change the tooltip to say "some buffs are dispelled rather than stolen" and that fixes that problem. If they don't get the buff, they can say "must have been dispelled" and any confusion they might have had is gone.

In pve, the buffs are changed for the sake of balance. It's hard to make a buff that's a "must dispel" thing that also isn't quite broken when the mage steals it, without making it involve a lot of mob-specific mechanics. I feel that the approach they've taken is the best option they can take, though I do not think it's a perfect solution.

So long as the majority of buffs are stolen rather than dispelled, spellsteal should be kept the way it is. Why does "some buffs can't be stolen" lead you to the conclusion that none should be?
Confusing tooltips are never fun. While your solution might work, it would be a bandaid at best, and still confusing to many.

It isn't hard to make a buff that isn't too powerful for mages. I mean first off, there are abilities we have never been able to spellsteal, and they usually have some indication of this through the UI. It is misleading to see a buff you can spellsteal, spellsteal it, then get no buff because all it did was dispel it.

Secondly, making a buff not overpowered is easy. "Increases spell haste for X mob by 200%", or "melee attacks do X+ ap", or a number of other methods that make the buff not overpowered by mages, but allows mages to have fun stealing them.

So you are right, we are probably being a bit over dramatic about it saying "can't spellsteal everything, spellsteal nothing!". But that it certainly the route Spellsteal is taking. It would disappoint me greatly to see all of the fun spells that mages could once spellsteal go to spells that can now only be dispelled.

Some of the best buffs I have ever stolen were the ZA Fire Mages haste buff, the Earthquake buff, heck even the 70k shield from the GL dailies. It juts seems like more and more there is less and less fun buffs to steal. In PvP, go nuts, but even in PvP there aren't many really fun buffs to steal anymore. Can you name a few? Maybe I am wrong.

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