Windsong and Elemental Force Information

General Discussion
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So . . . using the example numbers, if you have 22% haste and you're about to pull a boss, then the chance for your first hit to proc is 2 (ppm) * 1.22 (haste) * 10 (time since last chance, capped at 10) / 60 (sec per min) = 40.66%. Then, regardless of whether or not you actually proc, your next hit (1.4 seconds later) will have a 5.693% chance to proc. I'm gonna be really sad every time I don't get that initial 40% chance proc.
10/15/2012 10:56 AMPosted by Alicenchains
Windsong procs on my Recuperate tics and breaks me out of stealth. Quite troublesome in PVE and PVP situations.


I'd recommend reporting that one on Bug Report :)
it has been reported..


So, there are pros and cons of both of those types of procs. We’re trying a new system for these enchants. This new system, nicknamed Real PPM, aims to give the random nature of procs, the scaling with haste, and the ability for us to balance them assuming a standard proc frequency. Here’s the short version of how you can expect them to function:

Here are even more nitty gritty details, if you’re interested:

  • It can proc from any damage/healing event. It keeps track of the last time it had a chance to proc for that enchant.
  • It calculates the difference in time since the last chance to proc. It uses that time to determine the chance for that event to trigger a proc.
  • For example, if you have 22% Haste, it was 1.4sec since the last chance to proc, and you’ve got Windsong, then the chance to proc is 2(ppm) * 1.22(haste) * 1.4(time since last chance) / 60 (sec per min) = 5.693%.
  • The ‘time since the last chance to proc’ is capped at 10sec, so that your first attack of a fight isn’t a guaranteed proc.


If you have any questions about this, please feel free to post them here, and we’ll try to answer them.


So what you are saying is that we are penalized if our class does not favor haste over mastery and crit? How is this in any way a good idea?
Please fix Windsong proccing on Recuperate and similar healing effects (I wonder if Second Wind has the same issue).

1) It breaks stealth.

2) Windsong procs are wasted in between pulls while Recuperate is still ticking.
10/15/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Scath
So what you are saying is that we are penalized if our class does not favor haste over mastery and crit? How is this in any way a good idea?


Not really. This just means that longer it's been since the last proc, the more likely you will proc again within 60 seconds.

So say for Windsong, if you only have 10% haste, you should proc once every 28.57 seconds.
If you have 22% haste, you would proc once every 24.6 seconds. ~4 seconds between each proc with 12% difference isn't that much.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6893749920?page=1

I have created a feedback thread for its use vs Jade Spirit here. It's Mage-centric, but anyone's welcome to contribute their data. :)

It seems it might be proccing much more than twice*haste a minute, unless haste buffs are interacting weirdly with it.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6893749920?page=1

I have created a feedback thread for its use vs Jade Spirit here. It's Mage-centric, but anyone's welcome to contribute their data. :)

It seems it might be proccing much more than twice*haste a minute, unless haste buffs are interacting weirdly with it.


It was my understanding that each version of Windsong had a 1 PPM chance. Not the entire thing. so Crit Windsong has a 1 PPM, Haste Windsong has a 1 PPM, and Mastery Windsong has a 1 PPM. There have been many reports that Crit, haste and Mastery procs can happen at the same time.
This is a rather general question, but doesn't this mean that the proc will happen more often for specs for which haste is the top priority secondary stat?
10/15/2012 12:14 PMPosted by Taymage
This is a rather general question, but doesn't this mean that the proc will happen more often for specs for which haste is the top priority secondary stat?


Yes but not by much. In my previous example, the max amount of time between someone with 10% haste and one with 22% haste is only 4 seconds.
10/15/2012 12:00 PMPosted by Delritha
It was my understanding that each version of Windsong had a 1 PPM chance.


The OP says 2 real PPM, so something seems to be off.
It was my understanding that each version of Windsong had a 1 PPM chance.


The OP says 2 real PPM, so something seems to be off.


Originally it was 1 PPM and that is what I was thinking. In which case wouldn't each of the procs (Crit, haste, Mastery) have a separate 2 PPM chance? Like I said before, there have been many report of people having all three procs taking place at the same time.
I've been hoping, for two expansions in a row now, that the devs would find a way for Haste to be worth more than a tiny fraction of other stats for DPS Warriors (i.e. rage and haste have never played well together). I guess this is one more reason...
That's nice and all... but it hurts specs that run low on haste value.
10/15/2012 10:56 AMPosted by Alicenchains
Windsong procs on my Recuperate tics and breaks me out of stealth. Quite troublesome in PVE and PVP situations.


This. There are already quite a few things removing me from stealth, and, you know, rogues kinda depend on stealth for a lot. :P
10/15/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Jairone
That's nice and all... but it hurts specs that run low on haste value.

Yeah exactly. I suspect feedback will be split based on favored specs that value haste vs. those that reforge out of it as quickly as possible.

The 'time since last proc' is a nice normalizing factor but the haste multiplier is pretty much a worst case scenario for, as an example, an Arms Warrior.

I doubt this change is significant enough to serve as a catalyst to revisit the value of haste for various specs, but taking a closer look at that would be nice (the change to Sudden Death late in beta was a small step in that direction).
Are any of the other enchants on RPPM?

What about shaman imbues, rogue poisons, or DK runeforges? Are they on RPPM, or do you have any plans to change them?
10/15/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Jairone
That's nice and all... but it hurts specs that run low on haste value.


As others have said above the difference between say someone with 10% haste and someone with 22% is roughly 4 seconds. So a class with significantly more haste wont have that much of a better chance than classes with relatively low haste.
Are any of the other enchants on RPPM?

What about shaman imbues, rogue poisons, or DK runeforges? Are they on RPPM, or do you have any plans to change them?


Not to sound snarky but what part of

  • We’re excited to see how this proc system works out. If it works well, we may start using it for more types of procs. Feedback about how it feels is most welcome.


is unclear?

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