Heroic Vizier, HoF

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*Converted players will no longer take damage from Attenuation or Force & Verve while mind controlled.


Does this include normal mode?
Converted players will no longer take damage from Attenuation or Force & Verve while mind controlled.

In all seriousness, this fight was broken on beta, this feedback was given then. My rambling below was in there too in some shape or form.

The platform choice wouldn't be such a big deal if his abilities had any consistency. The biggest problem with this fight was that they tried to make morchok 2.0, with a boss who's abilities quite frankly are too random to handle that design intent. He does have set cds by design but every ability is affected by every other ability in his arsenal, including the random exhale that can delay his specials (and exhale is random after 2 inhales or 3, so also unpredictable behavior). This causes significant variations in ability timing (i'm talking sometimes upwards of massive delays or even abilities being skipped in final phase).
if you run a reg expression on vizier pulls you'll find that the reality is, you have no idea what he's gonna cast next in phase 2 when he uses all 3 specials (minus always starting with attenuation). he may convert 3 times one 3 min final phase segment and next pull convert 0 times and do more force and verve & attenuation. This type of RNG is a disaster when you add in an echo with even more rng. This type of RNG was not factored into design plans when having two bosses up at same time casting two deadly abilities simultaneously. This should just never happen.

How i'd actually fix this boss would be to hard code a cast sequence and remove ability cds. maybe that'd be too predictable but it's also be easier to tune so you could plan for how he interacts with echoes. it'd prevent one pull where all he did was alternate attenuation and verve, sometimes with two attenuations straight and 0 converts, and next pull where he did 3 converts and killed half your raid from echo killing converted players (ok so that part is fixed now but you get idea). chaos is fine for one boss target, not two. chaos + chaos = disaster.
order + order works.
http://i.imgur.com/B0Bhj.jpg
11/08/2012 02:57 PMPosted by Omegal
In all seriousness, this fight was broken on beta, this feedback was given then. I wish those posts were still up so I could reference them. My rambling below was in there too in some shape or form.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6308361511?page=2#30
11/08/2012 03:01 PMPosted by Computah
http://i.imgur.com/B0Bhj.jpg


made me lol, hard haha
New bug: He's randomly casting Song of the Empress now

.........
11/08/2012 02:54 PMPosted by Postonforums
so much for the no super nerf during weekday policy
Dunno why they just don't admit they failed at the balance and just advise to skip it if you want guess thats too much to ask?
Converted players will no longer take damage from Attenuation or Force & Verve while mind controlled.

In all seriousness, this fight was broken on beta, this feedback was given then. I wish those posts were still up so I could reference them. My rambling below was in there too in some shape or form.

The platform choice wouldn't be such a big deal if his abilities had any consistency. The biggest problem with this fight was that they tried to make morchok 2.0, with a boss who's abilities quite frankly are too random to handle that design intent. He does have set cds by design but every ability is affected by every other ability in his arsenal, including the random exhale that can delay his specials (and exhale is random after 2 inhales or 3, so also unpredictable behavior). This causes significant variations in ability timing (i'm talking sometimes upwards of massive delays or even abilities being skipped in final phase).
if you run a reg expression on vizier pulls you'll find that the reality is, you have no idea what he's gonna cast next in phase 2 when he uses all 3 specials (minus always starting with attenuation). he may convert 3 times one 3 min final phase segment and next pull convert 0 times and do more force and verve & attenuation. This type of RNG is a disaster when you add in an echo with even more rng. This type of RNG was not factored into design plans when having two bosses up at same time casting two deadly abilities simultaneously. This should just never happen.

How i'd actually fix this boss would be to hard code a cast sequence and remove ability cds. maybe that'd be too predictable but it's also be easier to tune so you could plan for how he interacts with echoes. it'd prevent one pull where all he did was alternate attenuation and verve, sometimes with two attenuations straight and 0 converts, and next pull where he did 3 converts and killed half your raid from echo killing converted players (ok so that part is fixed now but you get idea). chaos is fine for one boss target, not two. chaos + chaos = disaster.
order + order works.


They are still up. Here a link to the thread where i (in addition to many others) point out problems in the fight which still made it to live:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6201710112#10

edit: note that my post was for a previous version of the encounter before some of the phase 2 mechanics were made ridiculous. The point was that i (and others) had pointed out some still-present bugs.
11/08/2012 02:57 PMPosted by Omegal
In all seriousness, this fight was broken on beta, this feedback was given then. I wish those posts were still up so I could reference them. My rambling below was in there too in some shape or form.


Your post is still there.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6233033506#15

Not sure exactly how many times it was reported that mind controlled players were being hit by rings and pulses. If I had to guess I would say every iteration of testing, approximately.

e.g. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6201710112#5

There are also reports in the various Viz-yay feedback threads of F&V zones being tossed into the middle of the room during the first two platforms and complaints of unrealistic travel time on zones over to the attenuation platform. Neither of those have yet been addressed, either.
Ah so the beta forums are still up, i thought i read they were being wiped. so i assumed they were. guess they are still there. :) was that only post i had? i could have swarn i ranted about verve and attenuation at same time too when i tested it on heroic. oh well.
11/06/2012 11:27 PMPosted by Doabearelrol
Test your damn raids before you release them. You've had more than enough time.


This is Blizzard we're talking about here. They do very little testing before releasing anything, and then absolve themselves of all foreknowledge or responsibility. It happens like clockwork in every patch.
They're really as bad as politicians.

Seen it happen for a good 5 years now. Always patching and hotfixing something. The patch notes tell a long and sordid history of screw ups.
Method has just killed Visier.

http://i.imgur.com/wFD4W.jpg

Blade Lord and Garalon were snipped Arctìca.
As with any changes, we're continuing to keep an eye on how these will play out as well as ongoing constructive feedback. While we do take into account feedback during the beta, it may not always result in having a truly complete picture of any potential issues or challenges that may come up with a particular encounter when it goes live. We try to err on the side of caution for any mid-week/progression changes, but sometimes, the need may outweigh the caution.

Thanks for all of the ongoing constructive feedback everyone. As always, it's appreciated.
As with any changes, we're continuing to keep an eye on how these will play out as well as ongoing constructive feedback. While we do take into account feedback during the beta, it may not always result in having a truly complete picture of any potential issues or challenges that may come up with a particular encounter when it goes live. We try to err on the side of caution for any mid-week/progression changes, but sometimes, the need may outweigh the caution.

Thanks for all of the ongoing constructive feedback everyone. As always, it's appreciated.


This is pretty pathetic blizzard. Just PLAIN PATHETIC. OMG a BOSS ISN'T KILLED WITHIN THE FIRST 10 MINUTES OMG NERF NERF.

Really, leave the bosses alone, let guilds bash their head against it for a period of time. Who cares if it takes weeks or months to get the boss down? Who cares if its the first or last boss.

This constant NERFING so everything can be killed within 5 minutes of its releasae is pathetic.

ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC.

Who cares if they are stuck for weeks or months?

Better yet Blizzard, just make one difficulty called FACE ROLL. Because that is apparently the only difficulty you seem to understand.

OMG OMG someone can't kill a boss in the first day wah wah, OMG OMG we better NERF NERF.

Sad VERY VERY SAD.


Should probably take the next couple of plays off.
As with any changes, we're continuing to keep an eye on how these will play out as well as ongoing constructive feedback. While we do take into account feedback during the beta, it may not always result in having a truly complete picture of any potential issues or challenges that may come up with a particular encounter when it goes live. We try to err on the side of caution for any mid-week/progression changes, but sometimes, the need may outweigh the caution.

Thanks for all of the ongoing constructive feedback everyone. As always, it's appreciated.


Sorry but how come didnt 2 Force and verves at the same time seemed broken to you guys ebfore realeasing the fight live ? I havent done or even tried this fight on H yet but evenI know that couldnt possibly work lol.

Edit: to the dude 2 posts above, the boss was clearly overtuned, it seens the hotfixes were to bring the boss to the intended dificulty adn to make the mechanics work liek they intended I believe, I dont think they ever wanted the echo and the boss ot stack theyre abilitys, or to have ppl dying simply because they got Mced on the wrong time.
As with any changes, we're continuing to keep an eye on how these will play out as well as ongoing constructive feedback. While we do take into account feedback during the beta, it may not always result in having a truly complete picture of any potential issues or challenges that may come up with a particular encounter when it goes live. We try to err on the side of caution for any mid-week/progression changes, but sometimes, the need may outweigh the caution.

Thanks for all of the ongoing constructive feedback everyone. As always, it's appreciated.


This is pretty pathetic blizzard. Just PLAIN PATHETIC. OMG a BOSS ISN'T KILLED WITHIN THE FIRST 10 MINUTES OMG NERF NERF.

Really, leave the bosses alone, let guilds bash their head against it for a period of time. Who cares if it takes weeks or months to get the boss down? Who cares if its the first or last boss.

This constant NERFING so everything can be killed within 5 minutes of its releasae is pathetic.

ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC.

Who cares if they are stuck for weeks or months?

Better yet Blizzard, just make one difficulty called FACE ROLL. Because that is apparently the only difficulty you seem to understand.

OMG OMG someone can't kill a boss in the first day wah wah, OMG OMG we better NERF NERF.

Sad VERY VERY SAD.


In this post, normal mode warrior raging about broken heroics being nerfed.

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