Farewell WoW, MoP = RIP

General Discussion
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I understand your problem. I have the same one as someone who started 3 months ago. You don't like doing the same quests on 3+ toons each day, esp on healers or tanks where comparatively raids/dungeons at least give you some kind of different experience with each toon. The key is to not rush things, stick with one or two toons at a time and max those out before going on to others. Dailies are a joke imo after I got i470 and I'm now searching for other things to do and will easily move on to lvl another toon. :)

Here's my incoherent rant:

I'm working on my fourth and fifth 90's right now and essentially I see my progression as:
- If I need a 450 weapon when I hit 90, I will do Arena of Annihilation
- Buy cheap PVP gear to get my ilvl up to run heroics until I can queue for raid finder

Heroics alone won't get me into raid finder, so I just transfer my boa epic inscription staff around to get those extra points. My guild even has boe gear sitting in the guild bank that we use solely to be able to queue for things. People withdraw it and put it back when they're done. It's generally cloth armor since all classes can "equip" it.

Anyhow, what pushes even casual people to feel that reputation grind is necessary is because it takes ilvl to get into certain levels of content. The only way to get your ilvl up..... is to grind reputations for an eternity, or buy crafted gear.

Your rant isn't incoherent it is seriously flawed though. You start off your post talking about ways to get around the item level requirements regardless of weather those items are even useful to your character. You mention BoE cloth gear and BoA inscription gear as a way to inflate your item level.

Does this not sound like "cheating" the system designed to keep fresh lvl 90's out of LFR. Why should it be any surprise that "cheating" the system gets harder for harder content.

Should blizzard & the wow community agree with players who "cheat" the system and lower the item level requirements for them, because they can't play the game in a way that makes it harder for other people to play the game?

On another note there are players like the OP who can level 9 toons to level 90 inside of 2 months of the expansion. That is a significant amount of time imo. How can such a person not have any time to do the minimum number of dailies on one character to slowly gear his character out.

Leveling is, by and large, doing quests, and dailies is also doing quests. The OP sounds like he might enjoy questing, and he also sounds like he enjoys doing the same quests multiple times across many characters. A player like the OP should be happy with dailies based on those assumptions, yet for some reason the OP hates dailies? Why would he hate dailies for what they are when they are so similar to how he has chosen to play the game so far?

To offer a suggestion maybe the OP really doesn't like questing and just likes having geared characters. Therefore why not focus on gearing one character since that should make him happy, in less time than gearing 9 characters and leveling them?
There is a daily grind now .... because they need to occupy your time in-between content patches. If there were no dailies right now, what would you be doing? Complaining that there is nothing to do? Do the dailies, make gold, get rep gear, and wait a few months till the next content patch comes out and all the crying that has become prevalent since wrath will be address in one way or another.
11/13/2012 11:08 AMPosted by Safetybreak
I've raided all throughout BC, Wrath and Cata. I know how this works. On Progression Night, you bring subpar DPS, you waste everyone's time. Only the rock stars get to play, and the rockstars do their dailies because they're manditory to get the best gear fastest.

I didn't realize hardcore raiding was the only raiding. You don't have to be hardcore to progress in a raid, and if you aren't the first group to down a boss, who cares? If you do, fine, but then it's your choice to take that path and all of the details that may go with it.

I was once in a raid back in BC that left out those who weren't "the best" and I decided after that, I'd not play with that sort of group anymore. Funny thing is, the raids I joined for the rest of BC, wotlk, and Cata progressed just as fast as that "hardcore" group even without putting so much stress on being the "absolute best."

If you're raiding with a group that requires you to spend all your time farming and doing dailies for gear, it's still your choice to be with that raid. It is your choice to put yourself in a position where you feel like you need to do that.

Me? I get to take my time, smell the roses, AND raid without obsessing over a few shiny items that are the same ilvl as the loot from bosses I'll be downing anyway.

We'll both get to progress through the raids, sure at different rates, but we'll end up in the same place. The difference is, I won't be as stressed as you and I will get to spend my time enjoying the game rather than cursing it.
Could not have said it better.

People are hurling buckets of money at Blizzard right now in spite of the few complainers about CRZ and Dailies.

Imagine that.

Ehhh, it's more than a "few." It's a pretty substantial number of complaints, just looking through the first 30 pages of general discussion on any given day, lately. (Also, looking at what gets Blue attention. They typically either hop into a hot issue, or hop into a silly thread to make a silly joke).

Again, it's one of those things that takes time (like dailies, lol). Fatigue sets in eventually. We might not see a decline ever (that doesn't mean things are perfect, just that Blizz gets the money and the status quo remains), but if we do see a decline it will be slow and steady and I'm willing to be 5.1 will be really important in that regard. If people are greeted by a whole new patch that offers little to the casual other than more dailies, we'll see if they quit or not. Honestly, I'm not as sure as you seem to be--I think it could go either way.

I'd love to see more constructive feedback about the content, though, and less mindless back and forth.

The numbers are 'in', man. Players didn't wait for six months before abandoning Cata. They dropped right from the start. And as people get used to doing dailies, the system solidifies and becomes more accepted and tolerated.

I realize you want to see things change...but they're not. Especially with Blizz making obscene amounts of profit off of it.

I'm sorry, but whatever doubts there were about the dailies system just got washed away by a flood of green.
by the way monk your name is LEGIT'


How many times have you said that in the past couple pages?

It adds nothing to the discussion.
No. They don't want you grinding rep in Heroics anymore.

Then I refuse to grind rep any more. I hate dailies and couldn't care less about the story. I enjoy the dance of dungeon fights, period. My fun currently consists of leveling alts through dungeons only, and running heroics and LFR on my max levels. They can keep the rep gear and normal/heroic raids if they think I'm going to burn my eyeballs out doing something I hate so I can impress the community or view the *yawn* storyline/world.
You sound just like the Blizz employee moderating this forum.. Just cause you pay money doesn't mean we care about what you think.. That's the way it sounds, and that's the way it seems. Blizz customer service is the worst in the gaming universe. I don't give a rip one way or the other about tabbards personally,but the attitude displayed by this Blizz employee who's salary is paid by us is unacceptable.

If he has a view just state it then !@#$. The comment about "just because you pay.." was uncalled for and inappropriate, so typical in the Blizz universe.

Glad this guy didn't develop the game, I'm sure it wouldn't be half as good as it is.

Blizzard is not nearly as bad as activision, infinity ward, etcs customer support.

But if you want to see the worst support in the gaming universe?
I've had a ticket with nexon that i constantly refresh every week, no response for nearly a year now.



How many times have you said that in the past couple pages?

It adds nothing to the discussion.

I will continue to say it until people stop trying to make it seem like they are.
I just wanted to say that I've been playing since BC and while levelling this was my favorite time in wow since the beginning of Wrath.

After more than a week at 90, however, I'm just fed up with the rep grinds and the stupid caps. Why is the valor cap so low that I can't even purchase one decent item? Surely people gearing up at the rate of one item a week wouldn't kill you. Furthermore yeah all the reputation grinds are destroying the joy that this expansion brought me with "Yak Wash", the most epic quest hub ever.

Let those who want to grind their points or reputation do so without artificial constraints of points per week or reputation per day. Put tabards back in (perhaps able to be purchased at honored) and let those of us who want to be in a dungeon get back to that rather than out trying to kill stuff with our healer spec.
Finally ready to call it quits, realized today after almost 8 years of playing that I just didn't enjoy the game anymore.

MoP ruined this game for people like me, I have a family, and I cannot and WILL not be forced into doing dailies across all my toons or hell even ONE toon in order to progressively gear my characters.

The new loot system for LFR, Sha, etc is completely unbearable, constantly seeing 28g pop up across all my toons gives me ZERO incentive to continue grinding out the casual content I am used to.

And its not like I havent given it time, I leveled nine classes to 90, and going through the same content over and over wasn't so bad, its the point where you get to 90 and you are pigeon holed into grinding dailies over and over or PVP'ing (which I do NOT enjoy). So I canceled today, which is saying alot because I play alot and used to enjoy this game massively.

Some will flame me, blizz will probably close the post, but truth be told, if they don't address these things soon there will be many following suit.

Why did someone report this post? I agree 100%. I am not bothering with the rep grind. I have been getting characters to 90 and then working on alts. I have noticed the feel of end game isn't the same (I've been playing since Vanilla). I used to love end game, now it seems too hard.. and yet too easy. Dailies.. are just annoying. There shouldn't be 1,000 dailies to do. And if you're going to have dailies why not have tabards for us healers? I rather do instances and gear through heroics (which I've done) rather than do 1,000 of the same quests every other day.

I love WoW. I've spent a fortune on this game, but I've heard SWTOR is going f2p. I'm not so sure i'm going to stay with WoW until they do something about Spirits of Harmony, PVP Bots, or this rep grind business. Bring the tabards back, because they don't mean crap right now.
----Also.. update the server downtime before it expires.

Thank you.
Ok I haven't read through 110 pages of replies, I've skimmed a bit. I personally really enjoy MoP so far, I don't enjoy doing dailies so I don't do them everyday. If that means I get gear less quickly, so be it. I choose two factions that I really care about and I grind them til I'm tired of it.

Now when I get an alt to 90, I don't want to necessarily do all of the dailies again. I personally don't want to see the tabards come back on the Cata system, where all I have to do is grind heroics. I personally would love to see tabards become boa, you can only buy them if one toon is exalted or even revered. That tabard could give a rep bonus to the other toons that are not exalted. If I could use the tabard on an alt to get more rep from daily quests and get some rep from dungeons, that would be great imo. Make me have to work hard on one toon and then have some easier options on my alts.
This Azzhole has alota LFR stuff he is talking out his AZZ !!!
We get it, they are extending the life of the expansion by forcing you to spend time unlocking VP gear. It's silly to believe the reason is anything other than making sure people take longer to gear a toon up, the longer it takes to gear, the longer people play.

Let's put 2 and 2 together now.
"So I canceled today, which is saying alot because I play alot and used to enjoy this game massively."

Screenshots or it didn't happen.
-_- go do dailies everyday for one week and you wont have to do them again for tokens for like a freaking month... im sitting on well over 500 charms because i cant get rid of them. I feel bad for blizzard because of bad and lazy people, no matter what they do there's going to be something people complain about. If people QQ about one class being op they nerf it and people complain about that. Once they nerf dailies and lfr the more serious players will complain about how the game is "ruined" now because everything is too easy and you dont have to try to get anything done because stuff will be handed to you. QQ less pew pew more, get better or get out.


How many times have you said that in the past couple pages?

It adds nothing to the discussion.

just sayin most people want to see you in some epics b4 u hit the raid progression u see his point
I dunno. The daily grind is a bit excessive I agree. But what makes it so is the fact that it DOES take 1+ hours to complete and heavily favors plate wearers. Casters have really become glass cannons and while not impossible in the slightest to complete solo, takes a bit more time then our melee/plate wearing counterparts. I think it's a rather unhealthy balance of the mobs health VS the dmg output they do.

For example: as a frost mage, I can easily kite and kill 2-3 mobs with 200K health + as most of the mobs at lvl 90 dailies have. But if they can touch me, 2-3 mobs = certain doom for my cloth status. Whereas a DK tank can pull 7+ mobs and take that dmg to the face all day, but doesn't put out the DPS that a real DPS puts out so takes just as long for them because they are slower to kill the massive amounts of mobs they can take to the face.

I think this is what makes them so tedioius and difficult to swallow for most players. That repetition grind killing 40+ mobs at 250K health a piece, 250K health isn't like 63K health. It still takes even geared lvl 90's time to down them. And 200K health is low for a daily mob in most areas. Perhaps either lowering the health pool or dmg output of these mobs as a whole would make the grind more bearable for casual players?

Just trying to offer helpful exactness, because I'm seeing a lot generalities, which the Dev team doesn't give two !@#$s about.

I also think, at least for my guilides, that even though Cata had a lot LESS material, it was fascinating and exciting because you resurrected some of our oldest and most favorite bosses. So we could stay active, but not feel like a slave to grinding and progress at the same time. I'm not sure I can accurately describe it. With Cata, you had the option to grind rep with quests OR use a tabard. It offered that rep variety which helped us DO progression, get progressed gear, and keep it "fresh" without making us want to tear our faces off.

In MoP, you offer only ONE way to grind rep which is through a series of revolving dailies that take in total about 2-3 hours to complete solo for most people. And EVERYTHING is locked behind that rep grind if you are serious about progression. I feel like, in past expansion, you could still progress at casual healthy rate, without feeling like a slave to dailies. But in this expansion, it feels like in order to have ANY progression, hardcore, casual or whatever...you MUST do your dailies or have a CRAP ton of gold.

I think in order to have that separation between the hardcore raiders who are in this to win this, and the casual player who doesn't mind not downing the first raid as soon as it's released, is to not lock all the gear and patterns behind rep, so they can at least get into LFR. But keep the raids at their current difficulty level, or increase their difficulty level so that the top guilds can still say they are top guilds while not restricting the most basic progression to all casual or less casual players.

And I realize, that Blizzard added Challenge mode dungeons, and pet battles, and a WHOLE HOST of other things to keep players challenged and busy, but it feels like TO MUCH. Because now you have about 7 new factions to grind staright rep with to unlock all their cool stuff, and ANYONE can do that if they wanted to. But now you have progression raids being released rapidly, as well as challenge modes to try your hand at, as well as pet battles to complete, and next patch you're just ADDING more content and more factions. Cataclysm worked I feel because players didn't feel SO overwhelmed by EVERYTHING at once. You released things in a healthy time frame that allowed players to maintain their WoW playing level, but it wasn't so much that players still had time and energy to get offline and go do things with friends, family, work...without falling behind the progression curve at a huge distance.

I realize this was kinda rambly, but was it helpful?
11/13/2012 11:17 AMPosted by Granny
No. They don't want you grinding rep in Heroics anymore.

Then I refuse to grind rep any more. I hate dailies and couldn't care less about the story. I enjoy the dance of dungeon fights, period. My fun currently consists of leveling alts through dungeons only, and running heroics and LFR on my max levels. They can keep the rep gear and normal/heroic raids if they think I'm going to burn my eyeballs out doing something I hate so I can impress the community or view the *yawn* storyline/world.

I'm sorry, Granny Raider, but this game isn't yours anymore. It's not tailored to Raiders any longer. They want the money of the masses and those masses aren't hardcore Raiders.

You've been passed by. You're now obsolete. Be glad you get what you do.

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