Farewell WoW, MoP = RIP

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Finally ready to call it quits, realized today after almost 8 years of playing that I just didn't enjoy the game anymore.

MoP ruined this game for people like me, I have a family, and I cannot and WILL not be forced into doing dailies across all my toons or hell even ONE toon in order to progressively gear my characters.

The new loot system for LFR, Sha, etc is completely unbearable, constantly seeing 28g pop up across all my toons gives me ZERO incentive to continue grinding out the casual content I am used to.

And its not like I havent given it time, I leveled nine classes to 90, and going through the same content over and over wasn't so bad, its the point where you get to 90 and you are pigeon holed into grinding dailies over and over or PVP'ing (which I do NOT enjoy). So I canceled today, which is saying alot because I play alot and used to enjoy this game massively.

Some will flame me, blizz will probably close the post, but truth be told, if they don't address these things soon there will be many following suit.

There is definitely legitimacy to your post, and we've been reading a lot of the feedback players have been sharing lately as we evaluate our endgame progression systems. Even as World of Warcraft evolves over each expansion, and as happy as we are with the experience we crafted for Mists of Pandaria, we always know we can do better.

Having said all of that, I'm just not personally sure we can design a game that's going to feel fresh and rife with content every time you login, if the expectation is that the average World of Warcraft player will have nine level-90 characters less than two months after the expansion's release. I really don't mean this as a judgment of how you choose to spend your time, either. But when considering everything you said in your post -- you mention needing time for family and enjoying casual content -- your noted (or implied) play time really sticks out.

Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?

It's not that people don't want to do instances or scenarios or raids, it's that if you do the instances scenarios and raids you absolutely have to do the dailies to get rep in order to spend those vp s or you lose out. No one wants to spend the time and energy getting a currency that is just going to go to waste because they've not yet completed that really quest rep grind on their 2nd or 18th 90. My computer is near constantly crashing, or I'd have more than one 90 already and be doing raids on one of two of them, and be in the same boat as the OP, and while that isn't going to make me quit, it's going to really put a strain on my love for the game, and I do know quite a few people who have let their account subs lapse because of it.
I'm wholeheartedly concerned about the current state of he game, as it does not seem to be very alt-friendly anymore, quite disappointing not only for myself, but also for nearly everyone I know who plays this game.
11/12/2012 04:38 PMPosted by Faera
Scenarios's do not contribute to "character power"... A slim chance at a RNG blue for a random slot isn't really progression, it's about as much progression as farming Spiders and getting an epic, just less rare...

Progression isn't necessarily raiding and getting the top gear. It's the conventional way people think of it, but it isn't the only way.

Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?

Because those things, short of actually giving you a useful drop based entirely on rng, only reward valor points. You know, the points we can only spend atm on reputation rewards that require the weeks of grinding before you can even use them?

And leveling to 90 9 times? Nobody ever had a problem with it in WotLK. Or are you choosing to ignore that feedback where some people enjoyed running ToC multiple times on alts for fun (and not this progression guilds you alleged felt forced to run it 4 times each week).
zahrym what you said is offensive.
I am feeling the same way, and I haven't leveled any of my alts to 90 yet. Just the thought of it turns me off. I love alts. I don't love grinding dailies on a billion different toons. If the grind was quicker, or you could do the daily grind with a tabard on, then maybe it would be better.

I am so, so, so tired of seeing nothing at all drop from LFR. Or empty bags from scenarios. I hate that there is no Valor to Conquest conversion anymore, or no Honor weapons. I would simply stick to PvP if I could, but having to gear up in PvE, well at least for the weapons, sucks. Why is it ok to have to do PvE for PvP gear, but doing PvP for PvE gear is abhorred.

Blizzard will implement a neat system in an expansion, and instead of embellishing on it, will get rid of it for something completely different next expansion. I am so freaking bored of doing dailies, and quests in general, that I am starting to dread logging into this game, and can only stomach doing them on this toon. I have had this account open since Wrath. For the first time since I have opened it, I am seriously contemplating moving on to something else in my spare time. I completely understand the OP's problem.
See he had time to level 9 classes to level 90, but he doesn't time to do dailies on one of the classes.

Heck, I only have 1 class at 90 the rest of my alts are just that alts.. I play them sure, but I am in no hurry to level them to 90..

I am just about as casual as the next person, I don't stress about getting gear and raiding at this point, because there is so much to do when you hit 90.. TBH my guild probably won't raid till late in the expansion lol so what's the hurry.

If family is really your issue, then how in the hell did you have time to level 9 toons to 90? I suspect family is the excuse he wants to use to bail on the game because he made into work instead of just enjoying it...

I look at dailies as money money money ;) I can complete the tillers in about 10 minutes... If I do Golden Lotus maybe 30 the rest of my night is free!

Pretty much this right here. I'll never understand why people feel the need to gear up all alts at the same time. Do you seriously raid, or whatever, on every one of those each night?

You only need honored with the Golden Lotus to buy profession patterns, if that's the issue at hand, then you can stop. I did this with my druid. She did Tillers to exalted and GL to honored for LW patterns. Now she's just farming Songbells to make Spirits of Harmony.

If it's about mounts, only one alt need grind the rep. The rest get the mounts with the exception of the Cloud Serpents.

I'm focusing on this alt right now as far as Reps go and that's for the mounts, with whatever gear I get from daily valor as a nice bonus.

Some days I don't do rep. I do Arch, or Pet Battles, or level a lowbie.

Blizzard is not mind controlling you do anything you don't want to do in the game, so it's really unfair to label it as such.
LOL @ the 8 years claim. Nobody who legitimately played vanilla would complain about MoP dailies. Nothing was more grindy than Vanilla. Heck, even TBC had more grinding.

People complaing about the current setup all started to play this game at Wrath...

I played in Vanilla. It was better in Vanilla because you had a lot more freedom. Wanna spend the day farming Timbermaw Rep? Sure. Wanna spend the day farming Shado-Pan rep? What? I can't? Damn.

Vanilla >>> MoP.

Inappropriate comparison. You were gated and prevented from grinding most reps unless you did zone quests, dungeon quests, etc. Furthermore, you had repeatable turn ins (for some reps) that required absurd amounts to turn in of expensive and painful to farm items.

Oh and then you had BG reputation grinds which took ages to do once they removed the token turn-ins, despite having equipment and gear associated with them that rivaled many pieces of raid loot well into AQ40 (non-set of course).

Furthermore, the grind was significantly longer in terms of just raw time investment and frustration factor. Wiping out furbolgs for Timbermaw was probably the easiest of the grinds, and you still had to go out there and just chip away at the reputation. It wasn't broken up into nicer chunks, it was way the hell out of the way in a world of ground mounts only (and where fast ground mounts weren't exactly highly common either), and the rewards were actually very minimal and prestige only.

Raiding produced 90% of your gear and that was that. You got geared up doing older raids or by being carried through a newer raid or if you were just starting into Molten Core... you did 5mans and worked with it as best you could. Stats were FAR from ideal and there was far more focus placed on just playing competently over having amazing stats.

What people forget about Vanilla is that much of the same is true still today, except things are easier and nicer and thus expectations have warped. Prior to DM coming out, most 5man pieces blew chunks in terms of solid itemization and most people had crap for knowledge of what good itemization was anyway... so provided you hit your Decurse button fast enough you were good enough to start. Now all of a sudden people think you MUST have a full set of LFR type gear to just down a single Raid boss... complete with a full set of Valor gear and all the trimmings.

Vanilla was in no way better than any other expansion of WoW other than one thing that can never be brought back: the new factor.

But let's face it... every game has a new factor associated and many games quickly fail because all they had was a new factor.
Can I get the ilvl I need to do LFR without getting to Revered with at least two factions? It doesn't seem like it to me, but I could be wrong.

Hi. Neutral with pretty much everything and had the ilvl to clear MSV LFR the day after I dinged.

You do need to farm MSV LFR for a little while to get into HoF LFR though. Or, alternatively, you could do normal mode MSV since it's tuned for a 463 ilvl.
11/12/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
What pushes you into reputation progression

Because you have locked away a portion of the progression path behind endless dailies.

Imagine how daunting it is to work on you main at max level, to go through that grind, and then realize if you ever want to spend Valor on your alts you'll have to do the exact same thing.

Again and again and again.

It is a ridiculous and self destructive way to artificially increase the lifespan of content.

The rep buffs for alts are hardly any solace, it is still an incredible grind when spread across multiple characters.
11/12/2012 05:25 PMPosted by Xamont
. If the grind was quicker, or you could do the daily grind with a tabard on, then maybe it would be better.

Good thing in 5.1 they are making alts get extra rep huh.

Quicker does not mean remotely quick.
Dailies are a gating system. They feel like a job: you log on, do these specific tasks for an hour, then you can go instance or whatever. You don't really have any options for doing them on your own time. If you can play every single day, you'll get them faster than those who can only do them a few times a week. This was the same complaint leveled against dungeon dailies, and the change to that was great. Tabards were nice too. You didn't feel like doing a bunch of rotated quests were the only way to unlock rewards.

And of course, you have to repeat this over and over again if you have any alts. I myself have a bunch (hence the name of this character), but I have zero interest in dailies and haven't since Burning Crusade. I was overjoyed at the idea of account wide achievements, titles, and mounts. It meant it wouldn't matter what I played, they could all share in my progress as a player - until I saw the silly and pointless restrictions placed upon them. Cloud Serpent Riding is required for each and every character. Many PvP titles and rewards are not shared. Account progress on many things is not shared, except for the meta achievements. For example, my reputations aren't shared, only the titles. Why?

I also get frustrated with the leveling grind. Leveling just feels antiquated, repeating the same zones for each character just so that I can get back to what I was doing before the cap was raised. And of course, Spirit of Harmony, but that argument has been beaten to death.

Of course, I'm a long time player, both of WoW and MMO's and gaming in general. Newer players may not have such feelings. I do though. I like playing WoW, and was excited about a lot of the changes with the expansion, but lately my motivation to do anything has dropped because I realize I have zero desire to repeat the leveling/reputation grind again on another character.

Now, I don't have to do these things, of course. But then I feel like I'm missing out. I do have multiple options for leveling at least. I can instance, or PvP, or gather nodes, etc., but for all of these gated rewards it just feels like at best I could be bothered to do it once....and never again. This expansion just feels very alt-unfriendly.

I stopped looking at MMO classes in terms of mains and alts years ago. For me, the question when I log in is "what class do I feel like playing today?", not "I should log on my Paladin first, do the dailies, and then log off to play what I really want to play today". I'd be much more interested in doing dailies and other "grindy" stuff if it didn't matter what character I chose to play that day because the progress was shared among every character on the account.
I never knew three level 90 characters was nine level 90's, OP.
11/12/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Lukenukem
zahrym what you said is offensive.

Zahrym, what you said is the truth.
Did someone in this thread say that MoP rep grinds are worse than vanilla rep grinds?

What is this... how do you even... what?!

I think you've gone senile and forgotten a lot in 8 years if you think MoP rep grinds are harder/longer/worse than vanilla.
11/12/2012 05:26 PMPosted by Xamont
Because you have locked away a portion of the progression path behind endless dailies.

You don't need VP gear to raid, has been pointed out ENDLESS amounts of times.

Ya think?

I started raiding with zero Valor items.

It's still makes an entire currency nearly pointless and that takes away part of the reward factor.

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