Farewell WoW, MoP = RIP

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@ the OP --> I have leveled 5 toons to 90. I've gotten pvp gear, including some conquest. I've gotten pve gear, which includes LFR gear. This means I am geared enough to run the next level, which would be raid gear. I've accompished all this without doing dailies. I resfused to do them and just went another route. Why don't you try doing randoms, followed by heroics, followed by LFR's? This should lead to getting the gear necessary for the next thing, which would be raiding with your guildies? If you like the game this much, and really would rather not leave it, then try it out.
I'm with you....I HATE dailies. I just earned gear through those means and am enjoying my time spent.
11/12/2012 07:19 PMPosted by Därkly
When RNG hates you, there is nothing much you can do really.

I cannot agree with this comment enough; I went 22 runs against Archbishop Benedictus before I ever even *saw* the tank shoulders and I'm not even close to the horror stories out there. I personally know a guy IRL (different server / guild) who left the game entirely because he never had a single drop from Dragon Soul in the entire life of that raid for his main toon.

Valor gear has become the way for a not-insignificant portion of WoW's player base to gear themselves. Whatever their individual motivations, be it for raid progression, easing the questing process through new content, or even just helping out lesser-geared friends through a dungeon run, or even just a digital representation of all their hard work, it should not matter in the slightest whether they 'need' valor according to another player's standards.

In the current content, valor gear and rep gear no longer exist as separate entities; it is now 'valor-rep' gear, thus requiring an additional hurdle to overcome where in previous content it did not.

And for the many people who are cursed with bad RNG, it is their only option for gear progression.
- Doing dailies over time unlocks access to rep rewards
- Doing dungeons gives you a shot at loot drops, in addition to points you can use to buy gear (in case RNG hits you hard)
- Wearing a tabard while doing dungeons gives you a shot at loot drops, in addition to points you can use to buy gear, in addition to access to rep rewards

One of the issues is that many of the ilvl 463 blues are only available at exalted, while there are 489 epics available at honored and revered? That makes no sense. Crafting recipes should be available at much lower faction ratings, or be available from trainers right off the bat.. or even just purchasable like the pvp patterns are.
But here's a design problem in the Cataclysm model you want back:

- Doing dailies over time unlocks access to rep rewards
- Doing dungeons gives you a shot at loot drops, in addition to points you can use to buy gear (in case RNG hits you hard)
- Wearing a tabard while doing dungeons gives you a shot at loot drops, in addition to points you can use to buy gear, in addition to access to rep rewards

You may not like daily quests. But that alone isn't justification for making daily quests irrelevant for those running group content. By running dungeons with tabards, you effectively got to double-dip in Cataclysm by gaining access to rep rewards, VP rewards, and dungeon drops. It was super convenient, and also left players with a system that didn't really reward you for doing more than the bare minimum of raiding and running seven dungeons each week.

Now there is incentive to vary the content you do. The idea that, "I have a tabard so this endgame content doesn't apply to me," is gone.

Zarhym, I get your point about the old tabard model. I do. But there's got to be a happy medium here. I ran dailys a lot during Cata, and WotLK on multiple characters. They were quick, easy, tasks, where each hub took no more than 30 minutes. Completely solo. In fresh 80/85's in quest greens from 2 or 3 leveling zones back. I'd run them on multiple characters in the same day even.

MoP dailys on the other hand are much, much more difficult, tedious and frustrating. Hence, for most of us casual players, they are too time consuming. Golden Lotus? Takes me an hour to do them. Klaxxi? Another hour. Shado-Pan? Haven't even unlocked those yet. Or August Celestials for that matter.

Doubling the rep gains from dailys is a step in the right direction, but it doesn't fix the problems I mentioned above with the MoP dailys. The mobs hit to hard, have too much life and are too packed in. The quests themselves simply aren't enjoyable for this reason. Whatever happened to that molten front model you said you were going to stick with for dailys? The dailys we have now are nothing like those.
But not allowing other options is effectively blocking people who choose not to do dailies of the rewards of the game.
Nobody wants everything handed to them (well I'm sure some people do) but most people really just want an option. I bet if there was dailies and a capped tabard and grinding mobs for rep/hand-ins people would be a lot happier. And then the real hardcore people will do all and get there faster. Just like the game is meant to be played.

Dude, 90% people don't want options. What people want is all the rewards in one place. If I told you the reward structure was:

Dungeons = Gear + valor
Scenarios = Rep + valor

90% of people would start complaining about Scenarios and how they don't like them.
11/12/2012 07:56 PMPosted by Deathbyrd
Why do dailies have to be the only source of gaining rep

You can grind keys for GL rep and shards for klaxxi rep. Not as effiecient as dailies but they are there.
Oh well I think it's pretty clear that we the right to say anything lol.. so. I guess we will see when Vivendi Activision sees the bottom numbers and decides to change things.

Oh and no, don't give me the numbers that just came out. Subs always go up at the beginning of an expansion. I will bet anything that they are already way below 10 million.

Cataclysm's Gear Supermarket system killed off millions of subscribers. So I doubt we'll ever see its like again.

And good riddance.

around 100 people that I know that left wow on my server and different servers left cata due to the dungeons being brick walls. Sorry but that is the the reason i saw on mmo champ, wow insider, facebook, myspace, and even twitter.

I will continue to sit here and 100% SKIP stupid dailies. Im screwing myself by doing so and I have blizzard to thank for that but oh well, grin it and bear it I guess or quit.

Eighteen friends on my server alone have left. 20-25 friends on my facebook, in different servers are all reporting the same decline of their friends. All in all I imagine more then 100+ people have left in my pool of people and yes, they have all said it is because of World of Dailiescraft. If it takes another 3+ million sub loss to give is back options to those who HATE dailies then so be it.
11/12/2012 07:48 PMPosted by Zarhym
To answer your first two questions, the difference is there is a reward structure in place for dungeons, and a reward structure in place for reputations. You want full access to rep rewards and dungeon rewards without putting effort toward both. Purely from a player standpoint, in terms of getting what you want with as little hassle as possible, it's understandable you might not see anything wrong with that.

The core problem is that, in your scenario you laid out, with multiple paths to progression loot, the Dungeon rewards structure blows chunks.

1) It's dependent on RNG.
2) It's now class *and* role specific RNG. (Gear up that second spec contributing to the raid in your primary spec? Bugger off!")
3) It's severely limited in allowed effort. (Oh yeah, you only get a shot at that RNG for 2 hours a week. Then you're done. Doesn't do you any good to do heroics, or scenarios, they don't drop progression gear, and the point rewards you can build up to possibly offset RNG? Those ARE FOR THE OTHER REWARDS STRUCTURE.)
4) It's dependent on RNG!

If you want two channels for gear progression, fine, make two channels. But at least even them out. Otherwise, quit screwing around and join them with some common sense again.
Some points the OP made is what I am feeling now as well. I've been playing since '05/ '06 and I used to enjoy this game. But about mid way through cata when firelands was released I started to get burned out. They added dailies which was fine and kept my attention for a short time. Then when I realized I had to do it all over again on each toon I was done and only logged on for raid nights.

Then Mop came out and I figured I'd give it a bit more of a chance to catch my interest again. Leveling 1 toon to 90 was ok, then the dailies started and after being 90 for a week heroics got to the point of running 4 dps and a tank and just blowing through them. So I leveled this toon as a fresh attempt to get another chance of capturing what everyone said I was missing with this xpac being great. Again hitting 90 still in quest gear and some crafted heroics become an afk fest where I can follow a guild mate and not do a single point of healing and look around on the net.

Then I went back to my main to try some BGs for a bit to get back into that and see if that's what I was missing. What a joke, bots everywhere and AFK rampant, not to mention just plain op classes ( granted most of the huge hits are all RNG ) but it was just another grind.

There is nothing to do its all a grind now. Do dailies and run heroics / LFR / BGs then log out and do it all over again on the next toon.

Im sorry to say this game has lost its momentum. Its all the same thing just re-skinned and I mean the exact same thing, there's no innovation for this expac there's nothing new it brought other then another few gigs of coding installed on my pc. You can list, Scenarios ( just mini games with some extra loot at the end ) Challenge modes ( 5 man raids that give not loot and increase your elite ego that I'm better than you cause I run this faster then you ) Pet battles ( no sorry, just no that seemed to be thrown in to mask the lack of things to do ) LFR ( Ran it, still do when I feel like it but Gold is gold and a carrot on a stick loot is still some !@# with a stick and string )

The only reason why I log on now is to see some old friends and talk with them but even they have started to leave.
11/12/2012 08:04 PMPosted by Tomaxx
Say what? There ARE no 463 ilvl blues under rep.

Klaxxi has weapons at exalted that are 463 blues. No idea why but they are there. Would have been better at revered in my opinion.
11/12/2012 08:04 PMPosted by Tomaxx
One of the issues is that many of the ilvl 463 blues are only available at exalted,

Say what? There ARE no 463 ilvl blues under rep.

Klaxxi have weapons, man. Some of em are even BiS pre-raid blues.
11/12/2012 07:56 PMPosted by Nzhuv
Great way of explaining it. Cata made the game far too convenient for players, so now they're expecting that same level of loot access.

All these complaints that Cata was for the "hard core" and yet it is being called too casual friendly? So wait, catering to the casuals is a bad thing?
11/12/2012 07:56 PMPosted by Nzhuv
Making dailies a big part of gear progression for casual players is a good system. I hope they'll someday understand why this is better, instead of the old way of handing out tabards.

There is a large variety of players who play WoW including casuals. There is no one set answer to what a casual is. Not all casuals like dailies, there are casuals out there who enjoy more player interaction like they get from group based content.

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