Farewell WoW, MoP = RIP

General Discussion
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Simply there're old school players that are out growing the game. Say what you will; broken this and that's unbalanced etc. the fact of the matter is people just get bored of it, and they're looking for more. When they're given more they don't want to do it. It's always been a grind even in the beginning, you'd log on group up with some friends and go grind for mats or whatever but you had an adventure them. Maybe the issues aren't all these time sinks but the lack of doing these with friends. LFF, LFG, Cross Realm BG's messed this up. Don't get me wrong i like these options, it is a double sided sword. Server communities are pretty crappy now a days, and guilds just feel like another job. I've been playing for years now, and I have fawn memories of when I was hardcore raiding. Now I log on do whatever for an hour or two and call it a day. I guess what I'm trying to say a lot of us old timers are out growing wow, and it's bound to happen to most of us. (Been playing since Dire Maul was patched and GM's hung out in Org patch 1.4maybe not to sure, it's been awhile)
11/12/2012 08:08 PMPosted by Zenway
Getting the gear super fast and easy made people blow through the content at a much faster rate which led to "lack of content" and now that it takes longer to get VP gear (which I still say isn't needed) and people are blowing through the content they come on and complain that they CAN'T blow through it, Blizzard is in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation and I think they should just say "Shut the heck up, this is how we are making the game"


Actually I think it was "lack of content" that led to "lack of content."


what lack of content?
you had initially:
9 Dungeons
BRC
TotT
SC
VP
LCoT
HoO
GB
DM

3 Raids
PVP (including fresh PVP BG's and RBG's)

next patch brought in the two troll Dungeons
next patch brought in firelands and a dynamic quest hub
during this time period was when most the subs were lost.

SFK
11/12/2012 08:39 PMPosted by Deathbyrd
There's a reason that it's 8:45 p.m. here, and I'm still at work and STARVING. ;p

<3 ya Zar, but seriously please listen to the majority of us so Cataclysm doesn't happen again to the subscriptions give us tabards, and a possibility of a rng with dailies like molten front so it isn't a boring repition. I also remember GC saying something like he wanted players to do what faction we wanted in mop so that's why he wanted to remove those rep enchants.
11/12/2012 08:40 PMPosted by Zarhym
I have never exactly been the biggest fan of Zarhym, LFRs, or what seem to be excessive daily quests.

lol.

I love being lumped in with game content. I could've used better implementation, that's for sure. :p

Maybe he meant the companion pet?
11/12/2012 08:36 PMPosted by Zarhym
There's a reason that it's 8:45 p.m. here, and I'm still at work and STARVING. ;p


I ordered you a pizza bro. Hope you got 20 bucks for when the guy gets there.

jk jk
11/12/2012 08:36 PMPosted by Zarhym
Even though we are posting long posts I hope blizzard reads this, and we aren't just wasting our time.

There's a reason that it's 8:45 p.m. here, and I'm still at work and STARVING. ;p
I appreciate your hard work, but please don't starve yourself... you're already looking a but skin and bones... well ok... just bones. Haha.
Finally ready to call it quits, realized today after almost 8 years of playing that I just didn't enjoy the game anymore.

MoP ruined this game for people like me, I have a family, and I cannot and WILL not be forced into doing dailies across all my toons or hell even ONE toon in order to progressively gear my characters.

The new loot system for LFR, Sha, etc is completely unbearable, constantly seeing 28g pop up across all my toons gives me ZERO incentive to continue grinding out the casual content I am used to.

And its not like I havent given it time, I leveled nine classes to 90, and going through the same content over and over wasn't so bad, its the point where you get to 90 and you are pigeon holed into grinding dailies over and over or PVP'ing (which I do NOT enjoy). So I canceled today, which is saying alot because I play alot and used to enjoy this game massively.

Some will flame me, blizz will probably close the post, but truth be told, if they don't address these things soon there will be many following suit.

There is definitely legitimacy to your post, and we've been reading a lot of the feedback players have been sharing lately as we evaluate our endgame progression systems. Even as World of Warcraft evolves over each expansion, and as happy as we are with the experience we crafted for Mists of Pandaria, we always know we can do better.

Having said all of that, I'm just not personally sure we can design a game that's going to feel fresh and rife with content every time you login, if the expectation is that the average World of Warcraft player will have nine level-90 characters less than two months after the expansion's release. I really don't mean this as a judgment of how you choose to spend your time, either. But when considering everything you said in your post -- you mention needing time for family and enjoying casual content -- your noted (or implied) play time really sticks out.

Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?


One thing i would say, is that i am rushing golden lotus dailies, mainly because i am 70 valor away from the 3000 cap, and have no mainspec gear to spend it on.

To me, It's like you're forcing us to do dailies BECAUSE if we do some dailies and some dungeons, we will cap our currency, and be unable to spend it because of the ridiculous rep requirement.

The requirement isn't ridiculous because it's there; it's ridiculous because there are so many, and the amount of loot you can buy from a single rep (especially at the beginning) is severely limited.

1. increase the valor cap
2. make dailies give more rep
3. reduce the amount of factions needing rep.

Maybe 2 items per rep progression rather than 1...but that's assuming you went with option 3. i think either one of these would work well.
Dear Zarhym,

Personally, I don't find there to be a problem with the amount of dailies that there are. The problem I find is that factions like Golden Lotus and Shadow Pan only offer ~115 rep per quest. This minuscule amount to me, is what makes the grind so arduous. Buff the amount of rep gained from each quest and you may find that a lot of the complaining will go away.
Another idea could be to allow rep gains through dungeon up to a certain amount per week. Though I think I read that mentioned somewhere. Anyway, I'm leaning more towards the increased rep. 115 is unacceptable....
For the developers:

You say LFD and LFR is a ginormous success because of the tremendous amount the players use them.

Another blue poster said you shouldn't give the players everything they want. The example they used was an NPC in Org you could click on to give you 10K gold anytime you wanted. Sure, everyone would use it and it would be popular, but it would ruin the economy.

It doesn't make it good for the overall health of the game.

LFD and LFR (and Looking for Scenarios and Looking for BGs and Looking for Holiday Bosses and Looking for the Next Great Thing) provide great short-term benefits for the game- at the expense of its long-term health.

I had my moment of clarity about WOW in Dragon Soul LFR. I realized I never again had to put in any effort to progress. I could simply leech off 24 others in LFR. I would accrue Valor and epics knowing that even if I had maxed out my character in that tier, I only had six months before the hamster wheel started up again for the next tier and my poor performance in a 5-man would reward me more than Paragon's raiders this tier. Today I farm and fish and do pet battles and wear half quest blues when my guildies need a fifth in a random. I realize the gear will be meaningless sooner rather than later. I may be slow, but it's been like I took the red pill from Morpheus.
I think Blizz may underestimate the motivational power of charms to get people out doing dailies - nothing like that existed in Cata to keep people out doing stuff to earn shots at gear even after you're rep capped. That sole item will keep people running dailies long after they're exalted with every faction. Bonus items like that, in addition to fun items like mounts, are awesome carrots to keep people in the world.
I have not read everything, but let me say first of all that I am against tabards being introduced for rep. I am, however, in favor of removing the rep requirements for VP gear. Consider the following two extremes :

a) A person who enjoys only 5 man content and just runs dungeons.
b) A person who enjoys dailies and only runs dailies.

The fact that person b) can get essentially a full set of epics over time and person a) cannot is ludicrous. Most VP gear is already gated via the small vp gain per week, there is no reason to also gate it via rep. Without tabards people will still do reputations for vanity items and crafting patterns and the epics from the end quests.
<3 ya Zar, but seriously please listen to the majority of us so Cataclysm doesn't happen again to the subscriptions give us tabards, and a possibility of a rng with dailies like molten front so it isn't a boring repition. I also remember GC saying something like he wanted players to do what faction we wanted in mop so that's why he wanted to remove those rep enchants.


I'd like to see double rep per level of rep. friendly, honored, revered - each step doubles the rep gained.
11/12/2012 08:43 PMPosted by Därkly
really. explain the nearly 1.2-1.5 million people who left before DS even went live.


Lack of content... again.... lack of content. I seriously don't remember ANYONE whining about having nothing to do.
Where have you been? (9months of DS, sounds like a lack of content)
11/12/2012 08:10 PMPosted by Tâssadar
What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?


Because I feel that if I don't get into HoF LFR asap, and get the tier gear i need i will get behind and wont be able to catch up when the next tier comes out. That's why i feel rushed to do everything right away.


LFR is there for people to see content.
guess what. 5.1 isn't even launching a raid that we know of.
5.2 is likely to be the next "raid"
so you have until 5.2 comes out (hint, not even on PTR yet) to see MSV LFR, HoF LFR and ToES LFR.
11/12/2012 08:40 PMPosted by Zarhym
I have never exactly been the biggest fan of Zarhym, LFRs, or what seem to be excessive daily quests.

lol.

I love being lumped in with game content. I could've used better implementation, that's for sure. :p


Is there a reason why blizzard insists that the dailies playstyle is the only playstyle worthy enough of getting reputation?

I was under the impression that GC said that options should be on the table, however, to get rep the only option there is, is dailies.
11/12/2012 08:31 PMPosted by Zarhym
It's difficult to tackle the "fun" factor compared to previous daily hubs. That's very subjective and I, in fact, disagree with you on a personal level. :o
Personally, in my subjective opinion, my main problems with the daily quests are firstly, too many "Kill x number of Mogu/Mantid" quests. Yeah, they're easy to do, but they get old kinda quickly.

But my main is the fact that they can be very competitive. Gotta make sure you're not stealing other people's kills (Sure, you could group up) but mostly, trying to loot things on the ground is so frustrating sometimes, especially when you're killing some mobs next to the thing you need to loot, you can't loot it because every time they hit you, your looting gets interrupted, so someone else can easily swoop down and take whatever you were trying to loot. It promotes being rude and it's really frustrating.
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Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
Although I agree with the issue with dailies, I won't go as far as to say I quit. My absolute biggest frustration is unusable VP. I hate dailies, in fact I loathe them. In my time in wow the only dailies I have done is/was Shattered Sun to Exalted for a Shield I needed to raid, Fishing, TB till I had enough for a Spot Light I wanted. That's it. My wife says is like pulling teeth to get me to do them, all my toons can be broke, I'm A-OK with it. Then comes MOP. I was doing my farming daily because I found it amusing, then I find out from the wife that I can't spend VP without doing dailies......
what the.....
I thought there was a "play my way" standard here. Where did that go? Sure I still do dungeons/LFR without the gear, but I'm a tank. Wiped a Raid just last night due to gear. Guess I better start on those dailies..... thanks blizz. Maybe I'll schedule to have my teeth pulled instead for next weekend.....

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