Let’s Talk About Brawler’s Guild

General Discussion
Prev 1 15 16 17 44 Next
not sure if it was asked or answered earlier but im curious as to the types of fights that will be encountered. If someones main is a tank im going to assume that their battles will all be tank related? same with healers having heal-related encounters?... i did see someone earlier posting an example figure of 10million hp in two minutes...by my poor math thats approximately 83K dps average..healers or tanks cant be expected to do this (and even non-raid buffed dps will have difficulty achieving this) with current gear levels.

Now I understand that this number could be purely speculative but the question still stands about the types of fights based around spec.


As Brawler Guild is not the spec based Proving Grounds, it will most likely be DPS and/or mechanic based. I'm sure a healer would be able to do at least some of it just by interrupting or moving out of the fire, but it isn't meant to be a "Look at how good of a healer I am!" type of thing.


If this is true then how does the whole solo progression thing work for healers and tanks assuming that these are the toons they've been gearing up through raids? Is it saying that the only way they will EVER get to see brawlers guild content is to gear a dps? that immediately disqualifies a lot of people.
11/08/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Smexygrowl
When did we become a communist society that demanded everything be handed out to us, instead of having to work for it?


Please don't bring uniformed political idiocy into the thread.
11/08/2012 02:17 PMPosted by Dysthymia
Wouldn't it be best to just give out invites at random, daily? Most of the fuss, in which I agree with completely, is about the indirect favoritism being given to the super rich. Simply giving out the invites at random solves this problem, yet keep's things at a slow build up like Blizzard wants. I do think you're doing yourselves a disservice by making such interesting and new content, that most of the community seems to be extremely excited over, so small and limited to the point of being non-existent. After the population builds up, it won't be a "small guild/community", the queues will be outrageous, and it will die out, or you'll be forced to introduce the multiple instances/phases for lots of battles, or introducing new places to fight throughout the different zones. Either way, it all sounds very premature and not well thought out to be rushing it directly into a patch to go live.


The "favoritism" bit I don't get at all. Do you consider it "favoritism" that rich people get to buy faster cars, bigger houses, etc.? What makes random so much better? Does Ferrari hand out its cars to random people? I think whether or not gold is the right currency is a different question (I think Activision Blizzard saw they needed an uncapped currency, and they needed an in-game gold sink, so 2 birds with one stone), but definitely random is not the answer. In life you work for things. You don't sit around and wait for luck.
11/08/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Redlukey
Unlocking it with currency is fine, but make it currency like Justice Points, Valor Points, or some other currency received by completing PvE content. There are plenty of good suggestions from earlier in these forums about that!


Except that gold is a currency received by completing PvE content...


Not necessarily. You can get gold from many different sources, including the PvE rewards, the Auction House... or even friends. I was talking about PvE exclusive currency, like JP, VP, etc.
11/08/2012 02:17 PMPosted by Dysthymia
Wouldn't it be best to just give out invites at random, daily? Most of the fuss, in which I agree with completely, is about the indirect favoritism being given to the super rich. Simply giving out the invites at random solves this problem, yet keep's things at a slow build up like Blizzard wants. I do think you're doing yourselves a disservice by making such interesting and new content, that most of the community seems to be extremely excited over, so small and limited to the point of being non-existent. After the population builds up, it won't be a "small guild/community", the queues will be outrageous, and it will die out, or you'll be forced to introduce the multiple instances/phases for lots of battles, or introducing new places to fight throughout the different zones. Either way, it all sounds very premature and not well thought out to be rushing it directly into a patch to go live.


Random invites would be awful. It would be worse than yet another daily grind. "Oh, sweet, my undergeared priest I have no desire to do this content on got an invite, but my monk didn't? How awesome!" Oh, that guy over wearing a tuxedo jacket and a diamond studded cane got an invite even though the only thing on his action bars is /trade macros? That's cool, I'll just keep waiting for the RNG to continually screw me like it always does.

Everyone can make gold. Every single player. It isn't some exclusive club you have to join to make gold. It would be nice to have something worthwhile to spend that gold on once and a while.


"We" dont get to see those things because "we" dont have the time, because "we" dont try to improve our skills enought or somethign like that, heroic raids and rated BGs arent gatted behind gold, if i want i can turn a boss figth to heroic mode, get destroyed by it and whatnot but i can still turn it to h mode (provided i cleared normal, but that only means the only thing keeping em from heroics is me improving as a player or progressing ttrought the game), no need to go to the BMAH buy a ticket.

The whole reason pppl arent liking it is because of what you state on your first sentence, "content designed to be exclusive" there ha snever been such a thing before, hard content is not the same as somethign desigend to lock ppl out of it because they dont have throngs of gold (artificialy gating the content base don ppls welth in other words).

And mounts arent content, theyre vanity itens, if they wanty to sell one for 2 billion gold on BMAH go ahead, it wont lock ppl out of anythign doing it.


I fail to see why this game shouldn't mirror economic concepts that have existed since the beginning of mankind. There is so much "exclusive stuff" in the world and it sounds like Activision Blizzard just hasn't gotten around to coding the stuff in game. Do you complain when rich people buy Ferraris? You should! You don't have the time or skill to make enough money to afford one. Let's be real here. This game is not about handouts, it's not about communism. You get what you work for, and if you don't have enough time to make money, you don't get to buy as much. I can't think of a situation where that is not, in general, true. Every video game I have played with some in-game currency - the more you have, the more you can buy.


Because it is a game, seriously ppl we play this for fun, do i need ot quit work and start doing 12 hours a day shifts on wow to generate enought gold ot be abel to experience content now ? Conquering chalenges and progresisng is fun, even if it takes long, playing the Ah getting zilionare and buying a ticket is dumb, not fun and an artificial way of gatting content becaus eof a design flaw wher eonyl 1 person can participate in the guild at a time while the others watch.

And lets not kid ourselves here, many of the realy rich ppl ar ebotters, item dupers or gold buyers (ye I know there are many that arent too).
11/08/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Photonic
If this is true then how does the whole solo progression thing work for healers and tanks assuming that these are the toons they've been gearing up through raids? Is it saying that the only way they will EVER get to see brawlers guild content is to gear a dps? that immediately disqualifies a lot of people.


It isn't about solo progression. It is about solo bragging rights.
11/08/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Bomdanil
When did we become a communist society that demanded everything be handed out to us, instead of having to work for it?


Please don't bring uniformed political idiocy into the thread.


Can't say any better. And another troll i don't really care to give a crap about that keep going on about this.

This is like saying, stop working in RL, get in the game and spend hours and hours of what? Sitting next to AH and making gold to get the hope that u can actually outbid everyone on a Ticket?

Trolls doesn't care how stupid they sound.

I'm working hard in RL, pay for this game to enjoy it just like everyone else. I don't enjoy sitting AH making gold nor having the time for it. On the other side, they do, good for them. But does that mean I can't play the content i paid for? lol
11/08/2012 02:26 PMPosted by Grandine


Please don't bring uniformed political idiocy into the thread.


Can't say any better. And another troll i don't really care to give a crap about that keep going on about this.

This is like saying, stop working in RL, get in the game and spend hours and hours of what? Sitting next to AH and making gold to get the hope that u can actually outbid everyone on a Ticket?

Trolls doesn't care how stupid they sound.

I'm working hard in RL, pay for this game to enjoy it just like everyone else. I don't enjoy sitting AH making gold nor having the time for it. On the other side, they do, good for them. But does that mean I can't play the content i paid for? lol


Plenty of people have jobs and make gold. Don't be so stupid. If you have time to do the Brawler's Guild, you have time to make gold.
Here is my problem with this. And I know this is a problem because had I not considered mounts and trinkets so valuable, a lot of my 100k would have gone into getting into Brawlers guild.

Instead its mostly gone, but that is hardly the point.

Brawlers guild will start out being at the lowest the 10% richest in the server, and in some cases the richest 5%. These people are used to working in competition with each other, and some may not like each other.

But they will all see an easy way to make a profit.

Each invite they sell will be worth 20% of their original purchase price... enough that it can be bulk sold, and still make a damn good profit.

So the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the people who can't seem to get above 1000g, don't get in for AGES, weeks at least.

A lot of the design decisions this expansion has weakened AH players, whether intentionally or not. There is a LOT of resources out their, a lot more plentiful then previous expansions, and thus, those resources, and their results, sell for less.

And this is not a bad thing.

So why create something that makes the rich, richer, again?
I don't get on the forums very often. But when I do it's to protest moves like this.

THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA. (Caps intended for emphasis)

... The Bra-Gui is an awesome Idea which I am proud of you guys for coming up with.

... The invitation process is what has me miffed.

I know my server. I've been on it for years. I feel like despite my best effort this might not be a feature I would even get to see for a while maybe not even this expansion.

I understand Gold sinks and removing Currency from the economy but forcing us to compete for the purchase is going to make this vastly cost prohibitive. I have a hard time saving money, so buying off the BMAH is out of the question.

Leaving it up to other players is EVEN WORSE. This player base is akin to the Mos Eisley cantina. A Hive of scum and Villainy. Expecting any kindness is a huge gamble, if not completely ridiculous.

If you want a slow start. Gate it.

Don't make us bid for the Invites. If you want an intro cost that's fine (be reasonable) but make it accessible to all from Day 1.


Can't say any better. And another troll i don't really care to give a crap about that keep going on about this.

This is like saying, stop working in RL, get in the game and spend hours and hours of what? Sitting next to AH and making gold to get the hope that u can actually outbid everyone on a Ticket?

Trolls doesn't care how stupid they sound.

I'm working hard in RL, pay for this game to enjoy it just like everyone else. I don't enjoy sitting AH making gold nor having the time for it. On the other side, they do, good for them. But does that mean I can't play the content i paid for? lol


Plenty of people have jobs and make gold. Don't be so stupid. If you have time to do the Brawler's Guild, you have time to make gold.


Did i ever mentioned that anyone sitting hours at AH making gold do not have a life?

U troll should be knowing that ppl already know ur trolling and they dont give a crap.

Talking about how you know my life? Don't make me laugh dude.

"If you have time to do the Brawler's Guild, you have time to make gold" <= Do you even know how stupid this is? When comparing 2 completely different things over each other? And didn't i tell you i don't prefer sitting at AH like you? Nothing wrong with you sitting there making gold, but nothing wrong with me prefer other activities also.

This is the last time i feed you also, mate.


Please don't bring uniformed political idiocy into the thread.


Can't say any better. And another troll i don't really care to give a crap about that keep going on about this.

This is like saying, stop working in RL, get in the game and spend hours and hours of what? Sitting next to AH and making gold to get the hope that u can actually outbid everyone on a Ticket?

Trolls doesn't care how stupid they sound.

I'm working hard in RL, pay for this game to enjoy it just like everyone else. I don't enjoy sitting AH making gold nor having the time for it. On the other side, they do, good for them. But does that mean I can't play the content i paid for? lol


First, I work hard too, pay to enjoy the game, and don't get nearly as far as people who play 3 or 4 times as much as me. But you know what? That's fair to me. They worked harder, they got more. In game. I worked harder, I got more. IRL. And the second part of that statement I'm sure everyone can get behind. So why is the first part so contentious?

I don't play much, that's fine, but I don't go around saying I deserve everything in the game that people who play much more than me earn. That's the exact same thing as saying - some people play wow all the time, and maybe don't have a job, and they don't deserve as much IRL as me (which money can buy).

Why is this being a "game" make it exempt from such a concept?

Second, there exists an economic system where everyone's rewards are equal and unrelated to their skill or effort. That economic system is called communism. One is advocating that type of economic system in the game when they say currency and skill don't matter, everyone should get the same rewards.
11/08/2012 02:24 PMPosted by Redlukey
Wouldn't it be best to just give out invites at random, daily? Most of the fuss, in which I agree with completely, is about the indirect favoritism being given to the super rich. Simply giving out the invites at random solves this problem, yet keep's things at a slow build up like Blizzard wants. I do think you're doing yourselves a disservice by making such interesting and new content, that most of the community seems to be extremely excited over, so small and limited to the point of being non-existent. After the population builds up, it won't be a "small guild/community", the queues will be outrageous, and it will die out, or you'll be forced to introduce the multiple instances/phases for lots of battles, or introducing new places to fight throughout the different zones. Either way, it all sounds very premature and not well thought out to be rushing it directly into a patch to go live.


Random invites would be awful. It would be worse than yet another daily grind. "Oh, sweet, my undergeared priest I have no desire to do this content on got an invite, but my monk didn't? How awesome!" Oh, that guy over wearing a tuxedo jacket and a diamond studded cane got an invite even though the only thing on his action bars is /trade macros? That's cool, I'll just keep waiting for the RNG to continually screw me like it always does.

Everyone can make gold. Every single player. It isn't some exclusive club you have to join to make gold. It would be nice to have something worthwhile to spend that gold on once and a while.


Again, it would require minor things to be changed. For example, as you pointed out, not all characters on each realm are "mains", thus making it possible for the wrong characters to get invites. How can you solve this? Simple! Make the invites BOA so it could be traded to the "main", plus, make it so only one toon per account can currently hold an invite, and once one toon on the account has access, the other's can't get invites. It doesn't take much imagination to think of how it could work.

Yes, everyone can make gold. Let's follow the logic of this content barrier to it's conclusion and see how wonderful it works. Why not require certain amount's of gold to "unlock" or allow access to the next 10 levels after you reach level 10? Or 20, 30, 40, etc? If you fuss about this idea, why? What's the motivation to randomly require high amounts of gold to access content? What makes this specific content favor the barrier by gold? Why not have the requirement be for only people who do PvE content?

You see where I'm going with this? Creating these asinine barriers just looks silly, and I extend that to the barriers that stop players from doing Shado-Pan until you get Revered with Golden Lotus. The only barrier I agree with is the barrier they do with LFR content. Just don't put the damn thing in the game if you want to slow people up from consuming everything too fast! How hard is that?
11/08/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Smexygrowl
I'm not against buying invitations with other currencies. But how do you set up a bidding process? I probably wouldn't make it in for months if valor or conquest was the currency. Then again, I think Bliizzard has too many currencies in their game...


Why do you need to have a bidding process? Perhaps the price of admission is 3000 VP (or some similar type of barrier where the work going into it may or may not be worth the price of admission), which would mean that some would need to make difficult choices on whether or not to work for the ticket. That may be an extreme example, but I hope you get where I'm going with it.

Or, you could do something with one of other types of "currency" like spirits of harmony, charms of fortune, or other BoP (or BoA) items picked up from PvE content. I agree that Blizzard has too many types of currency in game, but we could utilize them as an alternative with a more relevant link to the content it unlocks.
I am someone who loves soloing old content. Not even for the rewards; just to see if I can. One of my favourite things to do in Pandaria is scouring the continent looking for rares to kill (only ten more to go!).

With that in mind I am extremely excited about everything about Brawlers Guild except for its implementation.

1) I love the idea of fighting harder and harder creatures, having to push my skills to their limits. It will provide a valuable "next step" from proving grounds which I understand to be more about learning one's class than pushing it to its extremes.

2) I do not love having to queue for solo content. Or, if I have to queue, I do not love having to queue from inside the area. It means I cannot explore and quest as I can with other queues, it means I cannot go hunt pets as I can in other queues, it means I cannot go hunt my rares for the day, it means I can't do my dailies; it means I cannot actually play the rest of the game. You are in effect asking me to choose between what you admit is intended as a smaller piece of content and, essentially, the rest of the content.

As an additional thought that occurred to me - it also goes against the design intent of Pandaria to "get people back into the world". It puts people back, sitting in cities, waiting for queues to pop. I'm on a PVE server so that wasn't really aimed at us; but even then it means the time that I spend in Brawler's Guild is time I'm not engaging in the other social aspect of 5.1 - Dominance Offensive. Which is actually a cooperative enterprise so enticing socialisation seems vital.

Given that I'm typically a "play for an hour or so per day" sort of person, and given that people on the PTR have been reporting 20+ minute queues, I will be lucky to get in two attempts per day. Worse yet I will spend more time in queues than actually doing the content I am queueing for.

3) I do not love the idea of being able to buff/debuff other players. Why? Because there is quite literally no chance I will ever buff someone. Why? Because the sooner they die the sooner I get my turn. The nature of the queue incentivises people to be as harsh as possible. The person in the ring is visibly standing between you and what you're here to do.

I've seen this behaviour when fighting world bosses with people tagging and despawning the boss; I've seen this behaviour when fighting rares with groups of people waiting for the same spawn and then kiting additional mobs to the person who manages to tag the rare; I've seen this behaviour when people are fighting a mob next a mining node and someone else swoops in to take it. Same basic premise.

I'm not criticising my compatriots, just stating that this is how people behave, and design should take place from that starting point and with those behaviours in mind.

4) Spectator mode seems uncompelling. As someone mentioned on another forum I frequent: there already exists an avenue where you can watch people solo crazy stuff, it's called YouTube, and you can even buff/debuff the player by voting their content up or down. Not only that but I can get tips and tricks, pause it, rewind it, get UI recommendations, discover new music, etc. And, again, in combination with the queue system there is a distinct possibility I am going to be alt-tabbed looking at YouTube videos of the fights rather than the fights themselves for the reasons outlined above (if I'm not throwing debuffs at people).

Some final thoughts for the time being: you mentioned that one of the intentions of the Brawler's Guild was to provide PVE bragging rights. Challenge Modes have a fantastic system for doing this, and I think that Brawler's Guild could learn a lot from them. Offer a title, offer a highly visible vanity transmog item, offer a mount, or a pet; things like that have been shown to be fantastic rewards as kudos, and are far more visible than anything the Brawler's Guild currently offers.


QFT!!!

This is exactly what Im worried about.
Is there a time limit on the fights? If not, I can see someone griefing everyone in the queue behind him by purposely keeping their match going for hours.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum