Let’s Talk About Brawler’s Guild

General Discussion
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11/08/2012 12:16 PMPosted by Fixitt
Doesn't change the statement.
Resourcefulness has its worth. If money's the problem, one knows what one has to do.


Money is basically a null factor in PvP. It's not required for PvE either, but serves as a shortcut for obtaining food or gear. In the cases, one's actual access to content is not affected by money except in the extreme, namely buying large quantities of gear across the raid.

That is not the case here. We can't opt to grind an invite, like we could an incredibly rare pet. We HAVE to use gold. And obtaining gold isn't necessarily exciting, innovative, or fun. It's the last way to make something available.
11/08/2012 12:16 PMPosted by Fixitt
Doesn't change the statement.
Resourcefulness has its worth. If money's the problem, one knows what one has to do.


I wasn't disagreeing with you. But you do have to admit this whole gating thing has gotten out of control.

You want gear to catch up? Go get my friends groceries for a few weeks.

Oh you got the groceries? Here go get my groceries for a few weeks.

Oh you are behind even more now? and you got the piece you needed from me from a random drop? Here go get my other friend's grocers for a few week cuz your boots suck.

Oh and when you're done there will be better things waiting for you after you do more grocery runs!

Rep gating horrible, money gating worse.

Its beginning to look like world of gatecraft around here.
11/08/2012 11:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Since the announcement, it's become something much larger in players' minds since then, which is part of what I'm trying to address now.


Doesn't that say something about how fond some of us are of soloing content?
We've already been quite disappointed with the way in which we can't even cover our own soloing costs any more thanks to the gold nerf, so there was quite a bit of excitement when this feature was announced.

Maybe I'm just not asking this right, so I'll try again: Why was the best way of the initial throttle for the Brawler's Guild decided upon as being tied to our gold supplies and luck with the BMAH? Were you also intending it to be a gold sink?
Ugh I hate the way you are rolling this out thought the BMAH. Better we all boycott it.
11/08/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Coletta
And while of course there will be these magical top tier heroic raiders that will steamroll all the bosses. But for a vast majority of people they will not be max rank immediately. These fights are very tough, have multiple 1 shot mechanics, require constant attention, and insane DPS numbers. Not everyone is going to be able to do 10 million damage in 2 minutes.


So basically, they're fighting a tough level rare that you could find out in the world... Sorry to burst your bubble there, but those rares require all the things you just said, and alot of people can take those solo no problem.
11/08/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Hurarao
As I stated in the original post, the Brawler's Guild was never intended to be the big patch feature of 5.1, despite the excitement surrounding it. It really is a small feature that we've decided to try out. Since the announcement, it's become something much larger in players' minds since then, which is part of what I'm trying to address now.


Are you really that surprised? People have been asking for more solo-content for YEARS. Like for as long as I can remember. So here you are, finally delivering what purports to be challenging solo-content, and you've decided to limit access to wealth.

And you're wondering why people are both excited for this feature and at the same time frustrated with the design choices you've made?


No, we're not surprised, but World of Warcraft hasn't traditionally been about solo content, either. Really, it still isn't - while you fight alone at the Brawler's Guild, you're surrounded by your peers. It's, at least in spirit, still social.

The whole thing is very much an experiment.

I think it's also worth mentioning that the feedback we're receiving on this isn't being ignored, and that we're still considering alternate methods of distributing the invitations.
It reminds me of the content you'd pay for in a free to play game,

"Buy Brawler's guild invite tokens for $10! Enjoy exclusive content while the freeloaders stare in through the windows!"

'Cept of course this is a subscription game.

If you want to go ahead and make gated content like this for the "have"s and leave the "have not"s out in the cold, well... it's a real turn off for me, I can imagine it might well be for others too.

With my utmost respect for everything else you've done for this game (which i've enjoyed) i seriously hope this feature, this idea to gate content which all our subscriptions pay for exclusively to the players (and their friends) that are so overburdened with gold (that you seem so very desperate to strip from them) fails badly, so you won't do this again.

As I stated in the original post, the Brawler's Guild was never intended to be the big patch feature of 5.1, despite the excitement surrounding it. It really is a small feature that we've decided to try out. Since the announcement, it's become something much larger in players' minds since then, which is part of what I'm trying to address now.


Well I'm certainly getting less interested. Mission accomplished?

I like content available when I want to do it (i.e. not gated behind something I don't enjoy, or queued behind other players) and I'd like to progress at my own pace (i.e. not Daily/Weekly/Monthly).
11/08/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Stardaze
And while of course there will be these magical top tier heroic raiders that will steamroll all the bosses. But for a vast majority of people they will not be max rank immediately. These fights are very tough, have multiple 1 shot mechanics, require constant attention, and insane DPS numbers. Not everyone is going to be able to do 10 million damage in 2 minutes.


So basically, they're fighting a tough level rare that you could find out in the world... Sorry to burst your bubble there, but those rares require all the things you just said, and alot of people can take those solo no problem.


As my friend Bearfist said in regards to this: "I hate you hunter's you cheat by existing." When describing the Pet class's ability to solo rares and such.
Even if the invites were easy to get, I'm not about to wait for hours in line. Which I get is why you want to limit them in the first place.

But here's the thing; you could have just made it an instance. Why in the world anyone thought one person at a time was a good idea is beyond my grasp.
Just seems funny to me, hey guys remember that movie with all the poor slobs beating eachother senseless? oh fight club yea what about it. lets make a in-game version BUT for people with money!!!
11/08/2012 11:02 AMPosted by Rangikuu
Gold sink to experience new content? Color me not interested.


Ah, I remember the good ol' days when the amount of content you got to experience was almost directly related to your amount of skill. Oh well as they say, gone are the days...

11/08/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Scottles
Just seems funny to me, hey guys remember that movie with all the poor slobs beating eachother senseless? oh fight club yea what about it. lets make a in-game version BUT for people with money!!!


Lol Fight Club for the insanely rich. In essence, destroying the underlying meaning of Fight Club.
First of all, I'm SO glad that the Realm 1st/ World 1st achievement is taken out. Because if not, this is beyond stupid.

Here are my thoughts about the feature:

- I'm bad at making money, or simply I don't have the time to devote that much into making money, thus i have enough to live over the days. I will never get my hand on that ticket, and I'm sure of it, not until it became like 10k? At least its the lowest starting price i've seen on BMAH.

- Base on that, am I so bad that i can't enjoy the new feature of the game?

- On other note, I'm paying the same amount of cash for the game as well as anyone else.

- This leads to the unfairness in gating content for the players, whose ever playstyle does not support them enough to get their hands on the ticket.

- So my conclusion is, this is just plain wrong, unfair, the most idiotic feature WoW gonna have.

And here are my questions:

- Are you trying to separate the players into groups? Thus making the 'entertainment' game become just as stressful as 'real-life' is? Last time I remember, I come here to enjoy myself, not looking at others playing it for me.

- Why don't give every single player a fair chance at the start? And how they progress is based on their skill in soloing the PvE content? This is the same end result for your way of implementing this feature anyway.

Finally, my last thought, gating content to sink money is the most messy, idiotic and just plain wrong to do.

Why not try to actually banning the 'bots', the 'duplicators' that are out there directly, than making everyone suffer from the disaster of those who caused it?
11/08/2012 12:28 PMPosted by Daxxarri


Are you really that surprised? People have been asking for more solo-content for YEARS. Like for as long as I can remember. So here you are, finally delivering what purports to be challenging solo-content, and you've decided to limit access to wealth.

And you're wondering why people are both excited for this feature and at the same time frustrated with the design choices you've made?


No, we're not surprised, but World of Warcraft hasn't traditionally been about solo content, either. Really, it still isn't - while you fight alone at the Brawler's Guild, you're surrounded by your peers. It's, at least in spirit, still social.

The whole thing is very much an experiment.

I think it's also worth mentioning that the feedback we're receiving on this isn't being ignored, and that we're still considering alternate methods of distributing the invitations.


Glad to hear Blizz is still open to other methods of entry. One idea I could think of off the top of my head would be; spawn 10 random npcs through-out Panderia that act as rare spawns, but carry 1 of these invitations. The spawn timers could be very long to create the staggered entry you're looking for.


No, we're not surprised, but World of Warcraft hasn't traditionally been about solo content, either. Really, it still isn't - while you fight alone at the Brawler's Guild, you're surrounded by your peers. It's, at least in spirit, still social.


I won't be surrounded by my peers, I'll be surrounded by people yelling CHOKE CHOKE! or HURREH UP NUB! or WIPE IT UP YOU SUX. And the like...
Will there be any sort of Challenge Mode gear scaling? Or perhaps individual fights scaled to your gear level? Or are solo players/those with terrible luck going to once again be forced into endless dailies for the chance to spend VP on poorly itemized gear just to maybe have a chance in the Brawler's Guild?
Ripping this from Fight Club and then making it cost money is an oxymoron. As the organization was very anti establishment. Will not be participating in this if "highest bidder" is the only way you can "control queues".
11/08/2012 12:08 PMPosted by Bankrolly
Gating content by the amount of gold you have is a really bad idea.


Would you consider the thousands of gold required for flying applicable to this statement? Because I doubt the BMAH passes will be all that expensive for very long, especially if they add more ways to obtain one later on (which Blizzard has been strongly indicating).
How will this differ from Proving Grounds? (the upcoming feature)

Just curious :)

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