A R1 Rogue's View on the State of Rogues

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Like and Sticky requested. Good luck.
This is a very insightful and intelligent thread. Blizzard will ignore this.
Even if that isnt the real ecliptium (250 2s games played, less than 100 wins never breaking 1500, way under hit cap, missing cheap enchants, improperly reforged), the point still stands
I agree with most of the op's ideas and suggestions but I think that rogue damage is fine as it stands. The changes needed(IMO) are not so much for the lack of rogue mobility and control but for the way rogues have stayed fundamentally the same since vanilla. If you look at the class the rotations and skills for pve and pvp have remained core and only minor changes added from time to time, while the game itself has become faster and more complex. I would suggest making step baseline as many rogues have said with the talent being replaced by a cc breaker like dks and warlocks have. BoS is awesome in theory and perhaps it will take priority at the end of the expansion when haste values are inflated but now it is very lackluster and would be best scrapped for a version of the old improved sprint and grant 4seconds of undispellable freedom. The talent tree in general needs some direction, tier 1 is great after that things are just jumbled together haphazardly. Perhaps t1=stealth(gj blizzard) t2= cc bonuses(prey on the weak, nerve strike, dirty tricks) t3 =survival(old improved recup, cheat death, leeching poisons[make poison damage heal you slightly]) t4=mobility(suggestions above with prep)t5= energy regen mechanics(possible a choice between venomous wounds,4energy per combo point used, and a thistle tea/ energizing brew cd) not so sure on that tier. T6 needs some excitement to it. The choice between anticipation and versatility is great but I end up with shuriken for pvp just because its ranged and I'm always kited. Would love to see ST baseline and replaced by a decent passive. As well as combat readiness and deadly throw which have been baseline previously. Paralytic poison which is my favorite non lethal now should be scrapped for rng reasons and the shiv effect applied to crippling.

The glyph system is a complete laugh. Other classes were granted damage and utility glyphs where a few active choices must be made while rogues were left with 1 spec specific dps glyph and the remainder are things that should have been baseline. The aesthetic glyph is bad as well. Am I the only one that thinks there should be a minor that let's your shadow walk or sprint leave a trail of shadows behind you.

Poisons- the new system has its pros and cons but I really hate it now. It doesn't reward skillful play of weapon swapping which would allow you to change poisons on the fly should the situation arise. It rewards lazy people that didn't want to carry poisons with them(myself included) but should a pve or pvp situation arise that your poison becomes useless now you lose control and damage. I find it amazing that the old system of two dps poisons for pve and wound crip for pvp resulted in better gains then the current system does for either now. Enhancement shaman and frost dks still duel dps enhance their weapons(dks yes because the glyphs are better then enchants).

Maybe more passives for mobility like not allowing our movement speed to be reduced past 70% or a reduction on the duration of movement imparting effects. Slow gains not insane buffs that will be frowned upon.

I have more but now that I wrote it I'm irritated.
I would just like to mention that you forgot about to mention the Glyph of Death from Above that increases the damage done of Heroic Leap by 100% and reduces the cooldown by 15 seconds. Also, the warrior pvp set bonus that increases warrior movement speed by 70% for 3 seconds after doing heroic leap.

Good post tho :D
Burst of speed should be a burst. Sprint is faster and longer. Maybe they should buff the speed value. I think half rocket boot speed or greater lol
Burst of speed has to grant the speed and the rootbreak at the same time to really be any good. Maybe reduce the speed if it dispels a root to like 30%, I dont know about you when i hit it i dont feel very speedy.
Just copy tigers lust from monks and make it only for the rogue. No energy cost 30 second cd.
Where do I sign
Liked and requested sticky.
(My main is also a warrior)
I just think blizzard doesn't care about balance because the world is ending in a month.
But for real i agree with this thread. I want to see rogues fixed. I really feel like they aren't listening to the players at all. I've seen a couple devs in strait up arguments with players over what they do and dont like. dev's trying to tell us what we like, lawl.
Just got home, reading all the replies and suggestions just furthers my opinion that most of the community are on the same page as far as rogues' standing at the moment.

Rogues have gone through multiple stages and various degrees of control and damage, with Cataclysm being the climax of those two plus the utilization of severely overpowered PvE gear. But after the MoP changes, Rogues are currently left in one of, if not the, worst state we've ever been in.

Our damage is at an all-time low. Our cooldowns were increased massively and divided among talents. While not a direct change to the rogue class, other classes were given more abilities/cooldowns, had their cooldowns lowered, or given the option of choosing more abilities previously not available to them.

At the very best case, and with the most popular talent choices, Rogues are still a large damage % behind what we were in Cata, WOTLK, and even BC, without Preparation, and with longer cooldowns on our trademark abilities (Evasion, Vanish, Cloak of Shadows). Deadly throw was removed which to me, stings almost more than any other change, as I don't see why the talent couldn't have been the exclusive interrupt.

Here's to hoping Devs take a closer look at the suggestions given here, on ArenaJunkies, other forums, and by general knowledge of the game to hopefully bring us at least somewhat back towards being a competitive class.

All of the sticky requests and suggestions are very welcomed.
Talents reworked -
Tier 1 - Stealth : Nightstalker, Subterfuge, Shadow Focus
Tier 2 - Defensive CDs : Elusiveness, Combat Readiness, Improved Recup (5% DMG reduction, heals 5%/3secs, now has 30s cooldown)*
Tier 3 - Passive CDs : Cheat Death, Nerves of Steel, Leeching Poison
Tier 4 - Mobility : Preparation, Burst of Speed, Improved Sprint (Increases Movement speed 30%, breaks snares, remove glyph)
Tier 5 - Incapacitates : Prey on the Weak, Nerve Strike, Dirty Tricks
Tier 6 - Utility / CP : Anticipation, Shuriken toss, Cold blood (+ 25 energy, 2 CPs, +50% crit chance)

I would retire every single one of my seven, non-Rogue, level 85+ alts if this went live tomorrow. This would make plying my Rogue infinitely more enjoyable.

Bump for this. I like where this thread could go.

I wouldn't, no offense. It offers too much healing, too little good choice.

11/09/2012 04:17 PMPosted by Nanaya
You make it sound like agreeing with me is bad =O

Missed that ... and ouch! I mean no such thing!
I think our damage is fine in the way that you can't kill someone in 3 seconds flat. I do think there could be a little more burst revolving around Shadow Dance for example as it only does decent damage half the time when you get lucky with RNG. I would also like more damage that revolves around Stealth than relying on sustained DPS while fighting toe-to-toe and getting blown up due to our survivability.
Why cant blizz respond to a post like this?!
The author is clearly knowledgable on the subject, they just like to ignore a class completely and let them rot without any IMPORTANT changes.

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