Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback

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11/13/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Snow
If you put the vp gear away from rep, what do you then add to the rep vendors to encourage effort to do the rep grinds.

Profession recipes, pets, mounts, toys, tabards...

Same thing that's been there to make reputations a worthwhile investment for rep hunters since Classic (and Wrath for achievement hunters)?

Sure: regular dungeons > heroic dungeons > normal MSV (supplemented with MSV and HoF LFR gear) > heroic MSV/normal HoF > etc.

You find me a raid group on my server that takes people into normal with 463 iLevel.
Meanwhile, my point remains (as made earlier) that the gating is preventing progression outside of the 1 hour a day (for dailies) and once a week login for Sha/LFR.

As the famous Rolling Stones once sang "You can't always get what you want". No raid guild is going to take you seriously if you are not willing to put in the EFFORT to gear your character.

>That means getting your 90 ancestry coins a week so you can get 3 extra loot rolls off of Sha and LFR.

>That means capping VP every week and getting to honored/revered with factions that have gear you need.

> That means maxing out your primary professions and your cooking (so you can contribute banquets like a good team member should)

> That means enchanting and gemming all of your gear.

Think of getting into a raid as a job interview. If you are a slacker, you won't get hired.
Ask yourself: "Self, what am I bringing to the table that would make this raid group want to bring me along?"

Also consider getting together with some WOW friends with similar ilevel and skill and forming your own guild/raid group.
There is a difference between supplying ample feedback and just complaining. Don't get me wrong we all feel like 'dude this really sucks' << which is just complaining in the eyes of Blizzard, and when they see that they think. Well we have to have a difficulty curve... or we would just make it free for everyone and just give it to you in the mail... but whats so special about that? and if we did that ... then players would just continue to expect free stuff... this is not the gaming model or business model that blizzard wants to portray.

Albeit a lot of us really like the free stuff, while a very small love lots of challenges.

We all have something to gripe about, either dailies, or LFR, or CRZ, or reputations, or Raids. If you dont like something, you need to write a very lengthy post nit picking every single little detail. Document time frames, document interaction encounters (mobs), document anything and everything you can present to Blizzard and from there explain what you do or don't like from that stand point. Use the information to support your dissension.

Blizzard uses your feedback and tries to fix the problems. It could be something as simple as coding fixes, to as complex as an overhaul of the design. CRZ in itself was a major feat and I applaud Blizzard for such a difficult task. Albeit there are problems and we have been telling Blizzard about the problems, and people don't even like the idea of playing with others. They just want to play in a world that is free from the bigotry and annoyance of other players. The problem with this is that blizzard is an MMO and saying 'i dont want to play with others' means this is clearly not the right game for you. CRZ was the answer to a lot of peoples complaints in regards to leveling in the older worlds, it was devoid of interaction. I haven't mentioned the bug but those are there as well, and we can only ask blizzard to fix them, I'm sure they are aware of these bugs and are working diligently to fix them as fast as they humanly can without breaking the rest of the system. I recall a time when the servers came back up and all players fell through the world and made a massive pile of corpses. What was funny was that when you logged in everyone was taken to the same spot so the corpses would just keep piling on top of each other. This is a point where the system failed, Blizzard implemented a patch and it had dire consequences. Let CRZ grow its still young. I still get dismounted or have a massive lag spike when I switch from zone to zone, occasionally. Do i gripe about it... maybe a little but I realize there is nothing that I can do in that situation and will just continue playing regardless in hopes that one day it will be a more seamless process.

As for dailies, this is the area where you would grip the most about.
What dailies do you hate the most? and why?
How much time do you think you should spend on Dailies? why?
Do you feel that Dailies is the only way to get any sort of progression in this game? why?
Do you hate specific dailies? which ones and why?
These are the answers you need to derive as a player. These are the questions that Blizzard is looking for and want feedback pertaining to them. Your response is going to be lengthy its going to require a lot of detail, and you should refrain from posting what you would do differently. The point being is that you should have a second post in reply to your first pointing out what you would like to see or what would you do. Here I will give you an example...
What dailies do you hate the most? Golden Lotus, the quantity is too high for the amount of effort. The entire first set is a generic rinse repeat. kill 12 of these blow up these rescue these destroy this. We have seen those dailies time and time again through out the game. The dailies that I enjoy the most is where I do a bombing run and fly on the wings of a Wyvren, and decimating all the mobs in my path (think Isle of Queldanas, that was a fun daily). Rescue missions I feel are a lot more fun than kill missions, because if my gear is weak or im not the best player or dont fully understand how my class works then im left with this sinking feeling of attacking a mob for what feels like an eternity. I shouldn't feel inundated when i see these quests I should see the dailies and be like ooh what exciting stuff do i get to do today? I have to kill 12 mogu... god that quest sucks why is it 12 mogu? we are so much more advanced than them and were fighting them in combat like this? they dont even give us a reason why we cannot fly in and destroy them with Goblin bombs or Gnomish death rays. Watching the huge numbers fly on the screen is one of those awesome moments for me... "whoa 2million damage... that guy got vaporized!!"
How much time do you think you should spend on Dailies? at most 1-2 hours for all the dailies. I dont want to do 50 dailies I only want to do about 10-12 per day. I want to spend my other time doing all of the other hundreds of other things that are in the game. Work on my PVP, play my battle pets, or level an alt, or profession, or work the auction house and make some money, or farm up Onyx eggs, or gather stuff for feasts for raid, or gather materials for potions and flasks. I have tons of things that I want to do that I cannot do because I don't have the time. I feel there should be a cohesion between all of this stuff. IE if i feel like gathering herbs... maybe have a turn in location for some reputation? or a battle pet master that allows me to duel him for reputation toward that faction? this would not be in conjunction of the existing stuff. I could choose what I wanted to do and how I wanted to go about getting it. Maybe even have an NPC that says ... hey lets skip all the shenanigans and you pay him 10k gold just to have the rep but dont do the dailies. CHOICES are GOOD.
Do you feel that Dailies is the only way to get any sort of progression in this game? why? Absolutely, if i choose to not do any Dailies (the antithesis of doing it constantly) then I will have a lot of Valor, but nothing to spend it on. I am then forced to do Dailies just to spend Valor. If i did dailies casually, then I would be left behind again, let me explain. I do dungeons and heroics and raids and LFR, but that one item never drops and no mater how hard I try there is not way I am going to get it. But, since I didnt do Dailies as religiously as the others then when i do want to spend my valor on that one piece of gear ... I can't, because I didn't spend every single day doing the dailies. Yes i hit the valor cap but there is nothing I can purchase because the only thing that I want happens to be on a reputation that I didn't spend every single day leveling. I will then spend the next 4 weeks doing dailies on end until I hit reverd just to get that one item or longer than 4 weeks if i don't have the required rep with the starter faction 'Golden Lotus'. I also despise the gating system for reputations, I didn't like the idea back in Firelands and I dont like it again here. Also btw, doing dailys for Firelands wasnt a problem it was just 1 series of dailies, and I wasn't trying to do the other 10 things I wanted at that same time. I could log onto my main and run the Molten Front dailies and then go... yup I'm done cuz there is nothing for my toon to do until raid, now I can level my alt or go pick herbs or farm the AH, or spend time with family, or clean the garage.
Do you hate specific dailies? mostly just Kill X of a mob, those are redundant and just down right frustrating, unless im this powerful tool wielding weapons of mass destruction. These horde and alliance have tons of ways of killing stuff and bringing that ingenuity to the pandas. I prefer 'rescue 8 of these guys' because I feel the instant satisfaction of the rescue. I don't like escort missions, the npcs run slow, and even if they move slow... you still have a system where they are going to be attacked by npcs at a specific location... so moving slow? just makes it more frustrating because of other players trying to grief you or npcs that respawn because he just took that long. I'm sorry but in what rescue mission do you gingerly walk out the front door? TBH your exit should be a bang... you should be running out while leaving a trail of dead bodies and explosions behind you... Think... Clear and Present Danger.

Blizzard you have a vast imagination, I know you do or we wouldn't have this huge awesome world that we can play in. I think you guys have fallen behind on some innovation and should try pushing the boundaries of awesomeness. This might not be something that you can do because 'time invested' vs 'necessity' vs 'practical' are just not feasible. Don't say 'there is plenty of man power' if there is? why is recycling content a norm? You guys even said it yourself. 'We spent a lot of time building these raids and to only have a small fraction see the content was not our goal'. Its ok you can deny what you want when you want, you guys are Blizzard.
All these people who cry about rep really make me green, and when I am green I am angry.

I only wish everyone played before they made this game so easy, so simple, so quick to finish. The game only has the sense of accomplishment from Heroic Raids & High End PVP now. Before, when I enjoyed the game, almost everything you done, from rep grinds to the first boss in a new raid felt like something special.

The fact is, and I know this wont be understood by anyone who cries about "rep". The game has been made for you, the people who cry that it is too hard, so suck it up and enjoy the fact that OS Hardcore raiders & PVP'ers hate how easy it truly is.

That's fairly rude and unbecoming of someone who is in the position you are in, Dax.

Treating people like an animal by saying, "No! Bad!" and then rubbing their nose in it for jumping the gun is definately not what you should have done. Rather, you should have POLITELY STATED the incorrectness of it and moved on.

In this case, both parties here made an error in judgment. Shame to both of you.

I dont see how he was being rude, he was merely point out the fact that the guy was wrong about Darkmoon cards. He may have been a little bit sarcastic to some extent and I'm sorry if you didn't pick up on it. But any way you read it, it was far from offensive, take a chill pill and stop being so critical about something a Blue posts. They are people too.
And badge gear being available to everyone is bad for.... who exactly? Has it ever been bad in the prior 6 years that we had it unattached to rep?

Because its a reward. Where do you draw the line? Why not just hand out heroic raid quality gear? Once people have the gear they'll immediately want better gear and complain they have nothing to do. Not to belittle you, but there's a reason why Blizzard has been successful and why they are the developers are we are not.
11/13/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Eucleia

And badge gear being available to everyone is bad for.... who exactly? Has it ever been bad in the prior 6 years that we had it unattached to rep?

Said everyone who screamed on the forums for 4 years (Wrath through Cata) about gear being too easy to obtain. What was the point of raiding if someone else could get purples from badges? Their purple gear should be special, etc etc etc.

Are you implying that dailies are not easy?

Dailies are easy, in case you somehow missed that. If Blizzard is going to make epics available via dailies, I'd rather them just send epics to everyone in the mail. Dailies are not difficult, challenging, or interesting, and they never will be. They're just an agonizing time sink.

I still don't get what's so bad about having the VP gear available without reputation.

Try this:

Because then EVERYONE will have it.

What's so bad about having the gear that drops in raids available for VP too? Or PvP gear. Or rare mounts.

What's so difficult to understand about a set of rewards being for performing a specific set of tasks, when the rest of the game works exactly the same way? The only thing that's changed in all these years is now it's rewards you want and a task you don't want to do.

Well, I never said that gear that drops in raids should be available for VP. I said why the VP gear that already exists needs to be locked behind reputation (or conversely, what is it so bad about that idea that it isnt) -- and it's nothing new! BC had gear that could be purchased with badges (Ge'ras anyone?), so did Wrath and Cata -- and none of that gear required you to be revered with a faction (and in the case of shadopan/august celestials, two)
11/13/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Eucleia
Said everyone who screamed on the forums for 4 years (Wrath through Cata) about gear being too easy to obtain. What was the point of raiding if someone else could get purples from badges? Their purple gear should be special, etc etc etc.

I wasn't one of the people that complained about badge gear. I appreciated badge gear because the RNG gods hate me.
11/13/2012 01:13 PMPosted by Librily
When most pugs and raid teams are currently 4/6, and typically asking for at least 475+ i-level. Tell me, how long do you think it will take someone, with no vp gear from dailies, to actually reach that level?

If there are so many people that can't get into raids because of 475+ 'requirements' maybe they can start their own raid with like minded people?
11/13/2012 01:04 PMPosted by Daralii
I have to applaud the blues for not telling everyone on the forums to go to Hell sometimes.

Amen to that brother/sister.

All I've seen in this thread is a whole bunch of personal agenda's being sited and people crying because they aren't getting everything they want handed to them on a silver platter.

I suggest everyone go and watch the movie Bruce Almighty.
If you ever wanted to see what really happens when the philosophy of "the customer is always right" or "Give them everything they want" is put into play...Go watch that movie.

Seriously. There is a difference between Blizzard seeing feedback and giving into it.
You all think you're so clever for throwing fits thinking that Blizzard is just ignoring you...well. Let's look at it this way.

A bunch of you are cursing up and down about CRZ's...Well what happens if Blizzard gets rid of them? Well...Everyone that likes them is now on the forums throwing fits and screaming that Blizzard doesn't listen to them....and the same thing goes for everything else.

Get over it people. Nothing in this game is EVER going to be perfect for everyone.
11/13/2012 01:13 PMPosted by Bomdanil
If you put the vp gear away from rep, what do you then add to the rep vendors to encourage effort to do the rep grinds.

Profession recipes, pets, mounts, toys, tabards...

Same thing that's been there to make reputations a worthwhile investment for rep hunters since Classic (and Wrath for achievement hunters)?

Precisely! It worked in the past -- don't know why the change of heart.
I created a thread about blood elves and undead not having a beard option x2 times and was deleted for some reason as well. Not sure why tho
11/13/2012 11:30 AMPosted by Daxxarri
You mean the one that just got a huge nerf? Yeah, they nerfed all the dmf cards.

No! Bad! Stop pointing to data-mined content as fact. The change that got picked up was actually an adjustment to Darkmoon Card trinkets for Challenge Mode stat scaling.

I can't be the only one who gets the mental image of a beastly over-sized immortal (SCII) waving the arm cannons at someone in a disciplinary gesture while saying that. "No! Bad! Zealot! Back behind the firing line!"

On topic; thanks for the heads up. Had seen the change on MMO-Champ and was confused; your clarification is appreciated by at least one player.

While we're on the topic of potential future things... can you confirm / deny the existence of the Tomb of Mauve Fire? (It was data-mined! Albeit briefly... and has since changed.)
Hmm... some of the pieces that are unlocked last (gloves/boots @ revered with AC) are the least useful. I'm pretty much exalted with all the factions at this point, and it's refreshing to not have to do dailies unless I'm feeling really bored. Also, I don't do dailies on my monk anymore since I can just raid. It's unfortunate not having coins, but I'd probably end up raging about 28g50s anyway.

Overall, opinions are pretty diverse. But if the interview with Blood Legion was indicative of nothing, these guys devote so much time to progression that trying to grind out dailies really is too much. Moving forward into the valor upgrade system, there are a few things that should be considered: you still will need to valor cap every week in order to min/max. Hitting the valor cap is much more demanding than it was in Cataclysm (at least up through Firelands), because you simply get so little from raiding. The system in Cataclysm was perhaps a bit of triple-dipping, because you got whatever rewards (gold/drops) from running dungeons, you got fatty chunks of valor, and you got rep that would allow you to purchase further rewards with gold. If you're doing over a hundred dailies a week, you're likely to cap while getting your valor, but the delivery system for people who are done with dailies (I'm sure Blizzard has expressed that charm stockpiles are useful for when people AREN'T running dailies anymore) is still a tad lacking. While I have no problem capping on my main raiding toon, it makes gearing up alts a nightmare.
11/13/2012 10:35 AMPosted by Daxxarri
doesn't quite fit into the schedule

No room in amongst all that maintenance
it seems everyone wants to complain to make the game easier, but they dont see it for the challenge. if blizzard was to make all these changes so that people wouldn't have to play so hard to get thing people would get bored with it, for lack of challenge, and quit or complain that it is too easy. it seems it takes a lot to make some of these people happy....
11/13/2012 01:12 PMPosted by Tenchu
I think the bugs are the major problem, they need to be fixed.

What is the major problem then? Please don't say competition, it's intended.

Do I need to post what the major problems are? Let's see grief, competition is meant to be within your server not with 5 different servers, people having difficult times leveling for many reasons. Go do some search on the forums all the problems that each player listed is there, like I said the bugs in CRZ is not the major problem that makes the game playaboe due to this service.
No. They do not support the low pop server playstyle, so no competition is not meant to be within your server. You trying to farm an old mount or whatever is suppose to be the same as a person on a high pop server trying to do the same. With competition there are winners and losers, obviously the losers experience grief. People can't level their character, I find that incredibly tough to believe. Heirlooms and dungeons are a huge boost to leveling.

I've searched on the forums, I've seen the complaints and commented. The issues you listed aren't major problems. Bugs and lag are major problems. The things you listed are intended.

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