Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback

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11/13/2012 10:35 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Not really. They're different things. The enchantments were absolutely, without-question mandatory, because there was no other way to obtain those particular power increases no matter what else you did in the game.


By no other way, I assume you are excluding the fact that they were BoA.

Meaning you only had to have rep with the correct rep on ONE character and could mail it to others. Do you honestly not see how different that is than having to grind rep with EVERY rep on EVERY toon?

Also, the OP pointed out you guys say stuff that isn't even true and back it up like it is.

because there was no other way to obtain those particular power increases no matter what else you did in the game


You could level Inscription for the shoulder enchant. But I guess in your book "no other way to obtain those power increases" doesn't include, you know, an alternative way to attaining those power increases.
11/13/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Draxz
I created a thread about blood elves and undead not having a beard option x2 times and was deleted for some reason as well. Not sure why tho


Well it is a known fact that Blood Elves can't grow beards because they lack any Testosterone.
Undead males had beards, their facial hair just fell out.
11/13/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Daxxarri
When I read this, here's what I am understanding. The enchant on the gear is MORE IMPORTANT than the actual gear itself? So, enchant > gear?


Unfortunately, it seems that you did misinterpret what I wrote. No, the enchantments are not more important than the gear, but they do complement all the gear you'll ever get over the course of that expansion (which is what made those reps essential). In Cataclysm, and previously, you had to have those item enhancements because they would apply over any gear you ever got. In Mists, you can skip rep gear, and move on to better gear, and never miss the reputations you didn't earn in the long run. Not that I'm advocating skipping dailies - there are definitely reasons to do them; just not to the point of fatigue that some choose to. We loosened the cap, and the intention there was to give players some flexibility regarding how they approached them.

While better gear is always helpful, the rep gear is only compelling enough to be called "necessary" relatively early in the progression cycle - and, in truth, it's only "necessary" for the guilds that are competing on that level. On the other hand, it seems that a certain type of player is always running extra miles of one sort or another to be at the cutting edge of content in every expansion, and with every new raid release. I mean, is any tangible, useful reward we provide--regardless of venue--going to seem to be anything less than absolutely mandatory to such a player, unless it is purely cosmetic?

Finally, as Zarhym mentioned elsewhere. We are paying attention and want to do better in the future. We're not in a position to completely re-work the way players interact with dailies on-the-fly, right-this-second. That expectation is unrealistic. We are always interested in learning better ways to approach these design challenges and make fun and compelling content, though.


I think the number one issue that needs to be addressed with these dailies aren't even the dailies themselves. I would say remove Rep requirements from Valor gear would fix almost everything that's wrong with them right now. I don't mind grinding rep for my new enchanting recipes or even tailoring patterns for that matter. However, to grind Valor and then turn around and have to grind reputation isn't the greatest way to approach it especially for casual players. However it should be pointed out that people are making a way bigger deal about dailies than they should be, all things considered you do your 90 token turn ins every week and nothing more as far as dailies are concerned and be just fine when it comes to being able to purchase items as they become available through rep. Just sayin.
11/13/2012 01:13 PMPosted by Slimjïm
Albeit a lot of us really like the free stuff, while a very small love lots of challenges.

WoW is a mirror of real life, the discontented welfarites vs. the hard-working rich. Guess who gets nerfed :/


What is wrong with having the usual vanity and cosmetic stuff? I did Anglers up to exalted despite hating 75% of the quests simply because I wanted the mount.
Because they want you to be able to put effort into your character to progress it faster/better than others. If I do dungeons, raids, dailies, lfr, and level the best professions and you just do dungeons and raids, my character should be much more progressed than yours.


While I do enjoy laughing at all the people who cry about how their dailies are necessary to progress, I am also inclined to say they took it a little far with the changes to VP gear. I have, for some time now, been touting the belief that Blizzard does not understand the ideas of a "compromise" or a "happy medium" between two ideas. It would have, in my opinion, made more sense to keep JP and VP gear on its own separate vendors as it has been in the past, and keep the rep gear on rep vendors for respective levels with the faction, but then remove the tabards.

Unfortunately, Blizz is a little like me with my cooking. I consider myself to be creative-to-a-fault in the kitchen, I'll have a good idea for a sauce, rub or marinade and then I'll end up throwing in one or two extra ingredients that I think will take it over the top but end up not blending well. Similarly, Blizzard takes a good idea for a change, and then overshoots it and ends up making it suck (for other references, see T9 token system)

In the future, the best suggestion I could give to Blizzard is to try implementing their proposed changes in stages. I realize sometimes this can be difficult but frankly it'd save a lot of the headache from when they just go over the top and end up frustrating the crap out of the player base, and it makes it a lot easier to find that happy middle ground between two extremes.
11/13/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Scathbais
I created a thread about blood elves and undead not having a beard option x2 times and was deleted for some reason as well. Not sure why tho


Well it is a known fact that Blood Elves can't grow beards because they lack any Testosterone.
Undead males had beards, their facial hair just fell out.


Or don't have jaws for that matter.
When most pugs and raid teams are currently 4/6, and typically asking for at least 475+ i-level. Tell me, how long do you think it will take someone, with no vp gear from dailies, to actually reach that level?

Again, the argument is similar to saying you don't money to live. That's true - but boy, it sure makes things easier! People telling raiders they don't need to do dailies is like telling people you don't need money to live.
No, it's like telling you that you don't need a second job to buy that sports car you don't need.

If they can't find a guild that will take them, start a guild and find people with similar gear. I doubt he is the only player on that server with his item level.
11/13/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Daxxarri
When I read this, here's what I am understanding. The enchant on the gear is MORE IMPORTANT than the actual gear itself? So, enchant > gear?


Unfortunately, it seems that you did misinterpret what I wrote. No, the enchantments are not more important than the gear, but they do complement all the gear you'll ever get over the course of that expansion (which is what made those reps essential). In Cataclysm, and previously, you had to have those item enhancements because they would apply over any gear you ever got. In Mists, you can skip rep gear, and move on to better gear, and never miss the reputations you didn't earn in the long run. Not that I'm advocating skipping dailies - there are definitely reasons to do them; just not to the point of fatigue that some choose to. We loosened the cap, and the intention there was to give players some flexibility regarding how they approached them.

While better gear is always helpful, the rep gear is only compelling enough to be called "necessary" relatively early in the progression cycle - and, in truth, it's only "necessary" for the guilds that are competing on that level. On the other hand, it seems that a certain type of player is always running extra miles of one sort or another to be at the cutting edge of content in every expansion, and with every new raid release. I mean, is any tangible, useful reward we provide--regardless of venue--going to seem to be anything less than absolutely mandatory to such a player, unless it is purely cosmetic?

Finally, as Zarhym mentioned elsewhere. We are paying attention and want to do better in the future. We're not in a position to completely re-work the way players interact with dailies on-the-fly, right-this-second. That expectation is unrealistic. We are always interested in learning better ways to approach these design challenges and make fun and compelling content, though.


I think the number one issue that needs to be addressed with these dailies aren't even the dailies themselves. I would say remove Rep requirements from Valor gear would fix almost everything that's wrong with them right now. I don't mind grinding rep for my new enchanting recipes or even tailoring patterns for that matter. However, to grind Valor and then turn around and have to grind reputation isn't the greatest way to approach it especially for casual players. However it should be pointed out that people are making a way bigger deal about dailies than they should be, all things considered you do your 90 token turn ins every week and nothing more as far as dailies are concerned and be just fine when it comes to being able to purchase items as they become available through rep. Just sayin.
To the people saying that the forum posters who hate CRZ make up a tiny percentage of the overall population:

1. The vast majority of the overall population doesn't post on the forums.
2. The majority of people I've talked to in game hate CRZ. In fact, I've never heard anyone on the general chat channels just randomly say "Oh man, I !#$ing LOVE CRZ!!", but hear the opposite pretty frequently.
3. The breakdown of opinions about CRZ on the forum (among those who have an opinion) seems to be about 90% against to 10% for.

Conclusion: The forum posters who like CRZ make up an even tinier percentage of the overall population than those who hate it.

(This is bad science in response to bad science.)

I would never say something to the effect of "stop expressing your opinion", I just contribute my own. If you love CRZ, list the reasons why. If you just hate peoples' complaining, then don't read the posts. If you complain about how much people complain, you are a hypocrite.

Blizzard needs to respond, otherwise this issue will just make players hate each other more and more.
No, the enchantments are not more important than the gear, but they do complement all the gear you'll ever get over the course of that expansion (which is what made those reps essential).


So... from what I gather, blue posters are saying that doing dailies and gaining faction reputation (as dailies/questing is the only way to gain the reputation to spend valor and jp in MoP) are NOT essential anymore because they don't have head enchants.

Also to note, previously, it was stated that valor and jp were a means to upgrade armor pieces of items that you could not get to drop in dungeons / raids. But the only way to upgrade the armor pieces that you cannot get to drop now is if you:

1) have done the quests in a zone to unlock the dailies.
2) complete those dailies to get your reputation up with that faction in order to make other factions like you so you can do their dailies as well.
3) once you have the reputations unlocked and at a certain point, ONLY THEN can you spend the VP and JP that you have earned from dungeoning / dailies / raiding.

Case in point: For leather intellect wearers, there is ONE helm, count them, ONE, that can drop from the dungeons. Same for leather intellect shoulders. I know other classes suffer from similar items drops. So, in order to replace that 442 helm from questing, you have to have ground up the reputation that has the... oh, wait... there is no 458 helm. You HAVE to get the one out of the dungeons to meet the min i-lvl requirement to get into the raid (this is assuming of course that you don't like dailies, you are sick of dailies, you're going to strangle someone if they mention the word dailies, and you are still wanting to gear up your main and/or alts). The only other option is to grind out the Golden Lotus dailies to grind out the Shado-Pan dailies to get the helm for VP when you reach revered. Doesn't that sound like fun? (Correct answer for anyone who still needs to take a break to get food in order to survive = No.)

So... Thank you Blizzard for making it so that I am only able to enjoy one class this expansion. Thank you Blizzard for making it so that people can only able to raid with one toon per week as there has not been enough time to level up and gear up alts. Thank you Blizzard for showing us all how much we would love (or beg or plead) to have the original team that designed WoW back designing a game that makes sense. Because at least they acknowledged the fact that you need more than just one way to earn reputation with a faction and you needed more than one way to gear up.
11/13/2012 01:21 PMPosted by Moonfrost
In the current climate how did this thread not get instantly locked or deleted?


Every now and then something has to succeed. It's how evolution works.
The current dailies might feel that mandatory to some particularly progression focused players, but it is entirely possible to skip them, and the gear they provide, pretty much entirely and still arrive at the same level of character potency.


Sure, you could skip dailies completely -- and you'd be left with exactly what to do ingame?

There's no depth to this expansion at all. It's dailies or nothing.
11/13/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Xiguazhi
I would say remove Rep requirements from Valor gear would fix almost everything that's wrong with them right now.


Cupcake for you!


You find me a raid group on my server that takes people into normal with 463 iLevel.
Meanwhile, my point remains (as made earlier) that the gating is preventing progression outside of the 1 hour a day (for dailies) and once a week login for Sha/LFR.


As the famous Rolling Stones once sang "You can't always get what you want". No raid guild is going to take you seriously if you are not willing to put in the EFFORT to gear your character.

>That means getting your 90 ancestry coins a week so you can get 3 extra loot rolls off of Sha and LFR.

>That means capping VP every week and getting to honored/revered with factions that have gear you need.

> That means maxing out your primary professions and your cooking (so you can contribute banquets like a good team member should)

> That means enchanting and gemming all of your gear.

Think of getting into a raid as a job interview. If you are a slacker, you won't get hired.
Ask yourself: "Self, what am I bringing to the table that would make this raid group want to bring me along?"

Also consider getting together with some WOW friends with similar ilevel and skill and forming your own guild/raid group.


This, he pretty much stated the thruth about putting some effort on your end. If you really wanna raid put some effort into it and not have stuff handed to you at no effort at all. How do you expect to get anywhere in life if you don't put any effort at all? If your a real Raider you wouldn't be complaining about high level gear being tied to rep factions.

You people just want free gear handed to you at no effort at all, but Blizzard said they're gonna change things around. So they introduced Challenge mode so that Blizzard can cater to the people wanting an AoE fest for heroics (just like Wrath) and that's what they did. If your not planning to go beyond LFR, then anything past IL 483 (at this time) is useless.

If you just want the gear just for heroic or whatever else, then work for it just like everyone else that has too. At least this way you don't have to worry about raiding and getting that gear IL.
11/13/2012 01:22 PMPosted by Act
The current dailies might feel that mandatory to some particularly progression focused players, but it is entirely possible to skip them, and the gear they provide, pretty much entirely and still arrive at the same level of character potency.


Sure, you could skip dailies completely -- and you'd be left with exactly what to do ingame?

There's no depth to this expansion at all. It's dailies or nothing.
Raid with guild, do lfr, dungeons, scenarios, pet battles, arena, random battlegrounds, rated battlegrounds, world pvp, fish, farm for something, level an alt, or run old content for xmog. I apologize if i left anything out.

edit - Thanks Tinymanz
challenge modes and achievements
11/13/2012 11:30 AMPosted by Daxxarri
You mean the one that just got a huge nerf? Yeah, they nerfed all the dmf cards.


No! Bad! Stop pointing to data-mined content as fact. The change that got picked up was actually an adjustment to Darkmoon Card trinkets for Challenge Mode stat scaling.


You, sir, have just made my day. Thank you for this information
You know what? I HATED with the passion of a thousand burning suns the new CRZ. I was ready to quit. I hated being on a weird server that wasn't "mine", I hated the rude people I would run into in the old worlds, I hated the competition...to be honest I hated absolutely EVERYTHING that the CRZ represented. I felt like I was an intruder on someone else's realm or that they were intruding on mine. I staying in Pandaria exclusively.

Then I started doing rated battlegrounds with my guild. And we were having some trouble filling in the entire group. So my guildies started asking in gen chat outside Orgrimmar. And we got some awesome people to join that are from another server with similar issues to ours when it came to full PvP groups. After this I have started seeing the potential CRZ has. I have met some really cool people who aren't so different because they are on another server. My only complaints are the transitions at this point. And that hopefully can be improved.

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