Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback

General Discussion
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11/13/2012 09:37 AMPosted by Librily
Don't like CRZ? Too bad; there's not going to be an opt-out.

You forgot : "Don't like what we've done to a certain class this expack? Reroll to another class!"
Set up a poll for a week that pops up once when we log in and get EVERYones opinion on CRZ. There was a survey implemented that gathers all our system information, I would imagine a poll would be simple compared to that.

Post the results for everyone to see. Then you would have a complete picture and not a guess as to how many people like it and how many people hate it.

Once you vote the poll results can be immediately seen such as:

Like - 20% 1,000,000 players
Dislike - 20% 1,000,001 players
No opinion - 60% 3,000,000 players

This will never happen as the player base woul have concrete evidence to "RUB THEIR NOSES IN"...
11/13/2012 09:49 AMPosted by Windsocks
The OP has a point.. They did specifically say that they felt it was too much for players to feel that they had to grind reputations for head and shoulder enchants and then they turn around and put the enchants for other slots behind reputations.

The shoulder enchants and head enchants had always been obtained only by one method, and their was only one good one for each spec/class. Enchantments from an enchanter vary. I can get different ones for my weapons, as a healer, that are good. Most of the enchants are obtained just from a trainer. Enchants that might be favorites are better quality are behind rep, but that's never been a new concept. Previously, we were forced to get reputation to enhance pieces at all.

Ya enchants are just more of a pain this time because they are behind TWO factions and if your enchanter is an alt then you have to grind this rep yet again. Not a fan.
The real fault is that you guys keep coming to the forums, begging for Blue responses, knowing full well the whole thing is shenanigans.

There's clear delineation between the people who whisper in your ears and the people who implement the game. The dailies were intended to be a bottleneck. Now, here comes the guys who put a better face on that to keep you all busy for two months till they release the account-bound rep tabard you can get at exalted.

Honestly, I don't even read the full blue responses anymore. It's the same jive they've been dealing in for the last 4 years. Twitter? No different.

Bottom line: we'll play this game the way they want us to. Even if it kills the game.
I hope one of those issues is Darkmoon Faire time issues. While you're working on the Fishing Tournaments, which were disabled because of time differences, you could look into fixing DMF ending early for the western half of the US playerbase.

I suggest a "simple" change such as forcing CRZ off in Mulgore, Elwynn, and Terokkar while DMF is active, "simple" being subjective. This would also be a good option to fix the Fishing Tournaments, if you want to have Stranglethorn and Crystalsong/Dalaran disabled only during those events (or 30 minutes before and after the events happen).

Either way, DMF and the Fishing Tournaments are essentially in the same boat when it comes to CRZ issues.

It's not just the western half. I'm in Eastern time zone, but I play on a Central time server, so I recognize 1am my time as midnight server time. Shortly after midnight my time I went to go wrap up my DMF stuff. I got shunted into an Eastern time server, an hour ahead of my server, and as a result had no portal. The irony is that the DMF was still going on... I just couldn't get to it! I wasn't the only one, there were a number of people standing around asking where the portal was and saying it wasn't midnight on their server. But "our realms" don't exist any more, we're shoved into instances of zones that could be any time +/- 3 hours (and I've had both extremes).

They could just fix it the same way they did everything else: put the portals in Orgrimmar and Stormwind. Why not? They centralized everything in Cata and did so again with Pandaria (you can even get to Northrend and Outland from Pandaria), and all focus is on the new zones anyway. You can't argue that it'd take people out of the world because the game was redesigned in such a way as to take people out of the world and put them in the capital cities unless they're leveling a new alt or some new player. They even made older group quests no longer need a group. The whole reason the "old world" is "dead" is because they took away any reason to be out and about. Forcing a broken feature on the game won't help this. Making some design choices that give top level characters a reason to travel the world again would fix it and put people back in those zones without involving a bunch of broken and removed game features.
It's a response to the many complaints that the old world felt empty and devoid of life

Isn't it fair to say you cause this yourself by making lvling way to fast?

My problem with CRZ is it hold no benefit to the players trying to lvl.. this is evident by the constant camping of low level towns/and neutral towns by 90s...

the worst is when you see the lame duck reply "im sure some 90s will be able to assist you"

No im certain most people who are 90 are doing things at lvl 90.. minus these idiots who think world pvp is killing lowbie quest givers, camping dark portal and netherstorm...

Long story short.. people are tired of lvling alts only to find out every quest giving npc or town is being overrun by people who otherwise wouldn't have been there. And if your gonna allow pvp servers to be plagued by this problem.. you should let pve servers feel the same pain.

The minute that garbage goes live in Pandaland i will be moving on.
Well, if Obsidium Ore going for 350g a stack and Minfernals being impossible to tame outside of a server reset means that CRZ is working as intended, then, well done.
I stopped playing for quite a few months before MOP was released. I only just returned a week or two ago. To say that CRZ has seamlessly integrated into most people's gameplay is ridiculous and frankly insulting. Maybe only those who, like me, skipped the rush crowd because it's frequently frustrating and overly aggressive can really see how jarring CRZ is. You have not made the old zones more alive, you have mercilessly killed them. You replaced lonely and barren with isolated and overcamped.

Personally, I don't see a single redeeming quality to CRZ. I don't want to enjoy the company of people from a server I did not choose to join for a reason. I don't want to play with my friends from other servers because in the last 6+ years if it was even remotely important that we do this, we've already made the change to be on the same server via rerolls or transfers.

But you keep your upside-down banner flying high, Blizzard. The "self selecting sample" that you claim motivated you to consolidate server resources, aka the vocal minority, doesn't make you that cheddar. It's the silent majority, people like me who have continued to pay every month, who pay for your premium services, who buy into your lofty claims that the future will be brighter. It may be hard to understand this, but we have only continued because, despite your efforts to brighten our experience by forcing us together, we've always found ways to play on our own, to play with the people who WE CHOSE to play with, not who you chose for us. And that is the only thing we care about. When you've alienated my friend, our other friend decides he doesn't want to stick around without him, and then, maybe, I'll finally decide that you've taken enough from my gaming experience.

You played a bad hand with Cataclysm, but managed to stay in the game with the ace you had in your pocket with pandaren. Do you really want to go all in with CRZ? Believe me, the sense of entitlement I may have felt with those epic items all those years ago is as nothing when I look around and there are no more reasons for me to justify my loyalty.
I don't like dailies being tied to: spending vp, profession patterns, gold, and even gating other reps. All while several of the rep gains are in the 150 range and so on. That said, I still do them, but stop at revered on my main and am waiting for the next patch to hit before I look at any of my alts (not looking forward to needing to grind rep again in order to buy vp gear or get prof patterns... may not for prof patterns, easier for me to buy belt buckles off of AH than grinding rep again on my BS).

I don't like the dungeon vp reward daily "bonus". My schedule is flexible so I actually log on pretty much daily and run one dungeon a day. That said, I do feel like this is equivalent of paying my $10/hr @ 1 hr/day * 7 days = $70 vs. my friends who can only log on Sat/Sun so they get $10/hr @ * 1 hr/day * 2 days + $5/hr * 5 hours = $45. So, since my schedule is flexible, I get (for example) $25 more in my pocket for the same effort. And my RL friends who can't log in daily are quitting (well, lapsing their subs) after spending $$$ on several server/faction transfers.

So, you've slowed some folks down quite a bit... and, in my opinion, they've slowed right down to not bothering to spend money on WoW anymore. In spite of liking Mists world, monks, etc. They don't like the above things and they don't have flexible schedules,
11/16/2012 03:17 PMPosted by Varidy
There is no reason to be nice to people or interact with them anymore.

If this is the most common argument I see from people who dislike the idea of anyone else in "their" zone as they level.

As far as I'm concerned you're point is 100% wrong.

You are nice because it's the right thing to do. You interact with others because you want to. The option is there now with others in the zone as you level.

If you choose to not avail yourself of this option, it's your choice. And at least you have that choice more often now with CRZ.

11/16/2012 03:25 PMPosted by Erim
CRZ feels like a feature that was contrived to cost cut, and not improve the playing experience of the players.
I would like to quote a Blue from another thread to address this theory.

You're just not correct, and you have no basis for comparison to even begin to understand any financial motivations behind the implementation of CRZ.

That's my biggest problem with a lot of the negative feedback I see on hot issues like CRZ: Not that it's negative, but that people usually need to explain the unknown by formulating what I'd define as straight-up conspiracy theories. And they spread like wildfire. We are probably in part to blame for it, but sometimes all the insights and behind-the-scenes facts just can't be shared in a meaningful way with the public. There's just not a lot to be accomplished by engaging with people who say such changes are financially driven (i.e. cost efficiency > gameplay or customer concerns), or that they provide the path of least resistance for us in terms of our production pipeline.
11/16/2012 05:30 PMPosted by Bynir
. but how there is always a request for a longer battleground and fixing AV so that it isn't such a broken battleground; then I saw this post.

GC made mention that AV is possibly the most complicated instance in the history of WoW and is also very old code that no on currently is all that familiar with. I suspect any willingness to look at fixing AV dies the moment that someone looks at the code.
If you look at the code, you end up on the grid
When something you feel strongly about hasn't been changed, that doesn't mean that we've dismissed feedback. In fact, sometimes we really like a suggestion, but implementing it doesn't quite fit into the schedule yet, or there are technical or design reasons why it doesn't fit into the game yet.

Please spare me the spin on how Blizz has technical concerns on how something will affect the game. CRZ is proof that technical implications don't concern them in the least.

No one has any faith that the CRZ bugs will ever be worked out. EVER. And this isn't just an arbitrary lack of faith, it's based on past history. Just one example: A year ago warrior jump charged was "fixed" and in the process hunter disengage was "broken." The only comment CG made about it went something like, "Huh. Yep it's broken." A.Year.Ago. Other bugs have persisted for YEARS.

Sometimes, we want to wait til we can implement a more elegant solution.

Yeah, well that nice except I don't plan on living to be 182.

Nonetheless, in none of these cases is feedback dismissed - it was still taken into account during the decision making process.

This is simply not true. Player feedback is dismissed, if heard at all. One only has to do a simple search to find hundreds of posts from Cata saying there was way too much CC in PvP. What did Blizz do in MOP? ADD MORE. Sarcasm aside, no one, NO ONE ever said, "There just aren't enough CC's in PvP." This is just one out of dozens of examples. How is this even close to listening to player feedback? It isn't.

There are no more player initiated PvP objectives like Halaa or towers. (There isn't even a current world PvP objective.) Player spontaneity has been removed from game more and more each xpac. One poster was spot on when they said Blizzard has decided to control every aspect of our gaming experience, we'll play the way Blizzard wants us to play whether it kills the game or not.

Don't insult the player base further by claiming Blizzard has any interest in what players like and what they don't. They couldn't care less. And please don't insinuate that they postpone implementing certain things because of technical considerations when in fact they allowed that buggy piece of CRZ garbage to go live.

Every day this company exhibits more and more ineptitude and more and more dishonesty.
11/13/2012 09:43 AMPosted by Erras
The fact that Cata was the way it was proves they listened to us. And it ended up being terrible (for a lot of people, at least). I've come to realize that the less they listen to us, the better the game will be.
I think the ultimate problem is that design changes such as cross-realm zones are not being thought through as much as they should and the inconsistent feedback players often hear when issues do arise. For instance, initially we were told that things like the fishing tournaments and two-seater mounts should be fixed with the next restart, then we're told that you aren't sure yet how they would be fixed since it's a complicated issue and now we're getting a response that two-seater mounts dismounting the passenger are intended. Does that sequence of developer responses make any sense?

From that published sequence of responses it appears that the developers were caught off guard by these issues which means feedback that was given in the beta and the PTR did not make it back up the communication chain. Or it means the design was not adequately vetted. In either case, it makes players feel marginalized when they give feedback on an issue for months and months and those concerns are either overlooked or the internal feedback system is not working properly and those concerns are not making it to the responsible team members. In either case, players end up not having much confidence that their feedback is being heard.

Personally, I have no problem with cross-realm grouping or zones if they had worked as originally advertised. But they don't. And it's clear that many significant game features have been broken for what is not an essential problem within the game. I'm still flabbergasted that you think having 12-hour time shifts previously or even 3-hour time shifts for zones is acceptable as game design. Time shifts make the game world unpredictable for a player. Why have a timed event if you have no confidence it will be available when you log in?

Leveling zones will always have fewer players as the overwhelming vast majority of players are at the level cap. No amount of cross-realm zoning will fix this. I can level an alt in a cross-realm zone and still never see another player if the zone is big enough because the pool of players available at any lower level is not that large. If you want to get a significant number players out in the world again, you need to put more things/quests/world bosses/dynamic events, etc. in the older zones for higher level characters to do.
11/13/2012 12:23 PMPosted by Daxxarri
We welcome it, we want to read it, and we want to share it with the development teams. You still need to play by the rules while you're here, if you want to be heard.

I do play by the rules and yet I haven't had a single scrap of communication about feedback I've put in.

Over on the Damage Dealing forum, I've got a second thread (after the first one capped) rolling about the Mage L90 talents (and there have been hundreds, if not thousands of threads and posts since BETA on the issue), and the only change we got so far is RoP loses its CD (which changes little to nothing on the talents as a whole). Yes, there was a proposed PTR change that didn't even make it to the PTR (which GC shrugged off saying "Mages wouldn't evocate" [Which is super laughable]), but we've been given NO communication as to these horrible, clunky, and boring talents that just completely ruin the class.

So after these thousands of posts, still nothing has been said on the issue. Care to explain about this "care" for our feedback?
11/16/2012 11:56 PMPosted by Gnomerika
I enjoy doing dailies. And I really like the current state their gives me a sense of peace. I throw on /dnd, turn on some music and go! And I just grab 15 mobs and eat them all. I don't see why people complain so much about this concept. They focus on the negative side of everything (community of pessimists! >:D) instead of the good. Its FREE GOLD, EASY FREE GOLD, Valor to help you work towards that piece of gear and when you get it feel ACCOMPLISHED, I feel pride when I get that epic 489 piece! I think people need to stop being so negative about the concepts and implications that are in-store and introduced and look at the positive side of things. The one's who sit here and complain are really destroying the morale of the ones who love it. It spreads like disease...I mean what more could people ask for? You have LFR, a guaranteed piece of gear after doing these rep dailies for 2 weeks. 2 MEASLY weeks. I mean I sat there and literally saw a dude complain about dailies and doing them...and you know what he did in despite of that? He SAT IN TRADE AND INSULTED PEOPLE for the next two hours! Like come on now? Its your fault you don't want to be productive and benefit yourself! Don't blame the game, the community, the CRZ, the economy, or anything else. When ultimately it is that, THE INDIVIDUAL!

Not everyone has amazing AoE (case in point, Fire Mages and Shadow Priests) to do that. Not everyone needs the gold. The dailies are boring and repetitive.

You feel accomplished to get a piece of gear that will be instantly outdated in HoF/ToES? (Especially heroic) Your bar for accomplishments must be pretty low, as is someone who uses a +5 Health enchant on their bracers generally would (no offense to pick at your gear/enchant choices, but I found that quite laughable)

Getting a "guaranteed" piece of gear after 2 weeks of dailies? Care to share where this is from? You get exalted after a month and a half. That's more like 6 weeks. Also, for a piece of gear (that I'm guessing isn't epic) for 2 weeks of work is a joke.

To the casual player, sure, these dailies work fine, but when Blizzard says we have CHOICES and make the dailies be super boring and have this many rewards, it doesn't really feel like a choice, now does it? (Not to mention being forced to get the reps if you want to spend your VP)

PS: Please learn what your Enter key does and use it more when putting posts on the forums x.x;

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