hmm?

General Discussion
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11/05/2012 10:20 PMPosted by Baby
I want options for myself. That doesn't affect you in any way.


I'll agree with that statement, if you'll agree that I should get the same rewards that hardcore raiders get, in some fashion that doesn't require me to put much effort into it... I won't be taking anything from a hardcore raider.... I just want options on how I earn it.


There's a large difference between, "I want Bob's stuff, I just don't want to work as hard as Bob did for it." and "I want Bob's stuff, I just want to earn it in a different way."
Lock conquest gear behind Defilers/League of Arathor to EXALTED and see what happens.
11/05/2012 10:33 PMPosted by Maigraith
I really hate using this term, because it gets brutally over-used in these parts, but your responses to me are pretty much the definition of a strawman argument. You're taking what I say to its furthest, most ridiculous extreme in an attempt to discredit my views.


I'm not doing that intentionally.. in my head (and I admit I'm a bit crazy) it makes perfect sense. It might be an extreme request, but to me it's no different than what you're asking for, an alternative to getting rewards that other people work hard for, but I don't want to work hard for them. They would still be able to work hard, but I want to play the way I want, big reward for little effort.

11/05/2012 10:32 PMPosted by Juststabd
Why do people like you keep playing if they hate the game?


I was going to say the same thing...
11/05/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Eizza
Lock conquest gear behind Defilers/League of Arathor to EXALTED and see what happens.


I suppose Arena Ratings don't count.


They are getting snarky because the playerbase is getting more stupid and whiny by the day. Heck, I love Blizzard snark. It is among the best snark you'll find anywhere on the boards and I always give them a thumbs up when I see it.

Bout time the devs and reps start telling the whiny players how it is.


Yeah! bout time they tell off their -unhappy- paying customers!!


There's a big difference between unhappy customers and customers who just want to whine about something.

Anyone who's EVER dealt with customer service understands the difference between the two.


If you decouple rep and valor then there are no rewards for people who mostly like questing and don't run other content.

Why does only your playstyle deserve nice rewards?


I think the better question is what happens if rep and valor are decoupled?

Blizzard has pretty clearly designed in a way that Valor vendors are a thing of the past -- at least in the Cata sense. The reason Justice points were decoupled is one of basic accessibility. The Justice gear right now is blues, and allows/assists basic entry into heroic dungeons. The same is not true of Valor gear. There is no numeric gateway that Valor gear surpasses (unless, I suppose, you count the Heart of Fear LFR gateway).

If Blizzard decouples Valor from Rep, you'd just end up with epics on Rep vendors that cost gold again. And you'd have no use for Valor at all, until the 5.1 system. .... And maybe that's the point of this whole exercise. I know a lot of posters in these threads just want another way to spend the valor that they accumulated by doing other things in game.

Blizzard has decided that Valor points get spent in large quantities for incremental ilvl upgrades to epic items. That's the relative weight of Valor in MoP, after 5.1. If you happened to work hard on Rep, they've said you can also spend your valor on the epic items from each Rep (as opposed to gold, in earlier expansions).

For what it's worth, I don't even know if I LIKE the idea of Valor having a dramatically different relative weight in MoP. I have no idea how the 5.1 upgrade system will "feel" once it's on live servers. So I'm reserving judgment. But at least I understand why I will like or dislike the new system once my guild starts using it.
Is the only way to get the Elder Charm Coins is by doing dailys by getting 90 of the good coins and turning them into 3 elder...? that sort of forces u into dailys if so.. because u know people want that extra chance in Raid to get the gear so your know there going do dailys to get a silly coin that doesnt even help one bit gg..

"Gear drops in raids like it always has."
"I like gear like I always have."
"But I want bonus chances at that gear."
"I have to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear?!"
"I don't want to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear!"
"That thing I don't want to do that would earn me bonus chances at that gear, doesn't earn me bonus chances at that gear!"

Let me know if that's an accurate summary, as well as what you're talking about. o.O


That is accurate, but I think the problem isn't that people don't want to do something to earn this bonus, it's that they don't want to do dailies.
11/05/2012 10:22 PMPosted by Enhancement
I totally agree that using Valor/LFR to supplement bad luck RNG was a reliable system that bolstered a lot of raids. I think Blizzard thought it was a little TOO reliable, maybe? At least compared to the quality of the gear. Assuming the 5.1 upgrade system is NOT tied to rep, it'll be reliable again. It just won't be as "good," and I think that's kind of the point.


But I also think Bliz tends to forget that the "easy" gearing is always right around the last patch of an expac- at least the last two expacs.

At the end of LK, I took my newly dinged prot pally and had her decked out in a combo of gear from the first badge gear of the expac until I think it was the last available badge gear of the expac.

Same deal during Cata with my warrior (though she still did require me having to take her into LFR for certain pieces), my priest, and my pally (who I went holy on).

Before then, those pieces were always for slots that couldn't otherwise be filled (heck, there were certain things from those vendors I wouldn't touch).
11/05/2012 10:39 PMPosted by Infernalist
Lock conquest gear behind Defilers/League of Arathor to EXALTED and see what happens.


I suppose Arena Ratings don't count.


Arena ratings are nothing like dailies. You don't have to grind out a rating with a different faction for each piece of gear you want.

If you want to compare rep to rating, then make one single rep to grind for everything, not multiple reps.


They are getting snarky because the playerbase is getting more stupid and whiny by the day. Heck, I love Blizzard snark. It is among the best snark you'll find anywhere on the boards and I always give them a thumbs up when I see it.

Bout time the devs and reps start telling the whiny players how it is.


Yeah! bout time they tell off their -unhappy- paying customers!!


For every unhappy customer they cater to, they are going to make a happy customer unhappy (hard to please everyone).

11/05/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Tekillya
tell off


I'm not supposed to respond to this (it derails the thread) but can you quote where Zar "told off" anyone?
11/05/2012 10:43 PMPosted by Onionrings


I suppose Arena Ratings don't count.


Arena ratings are nothing like dailies. You don't have to grind out a rating with a different faction for each piece of gear you want.

If you want to compare rep to rating, then make one single rep to grind for everything, not multiple reps.


That is some awesome goal-post dragging.
11/05/2012 10:39 PMPosted by Infernalist
I suppose Arena Ratings don't count.
Arena ratings basically just give 2200 players get an extra transmog set and a good weapon. The rest of the conquest gear can be gotten at any arena rating.
11/05/2012 10:50 PMPosted by Eizza
I suppose Arena Ratings don't count.
Arena ratings basically just give 2200 players get an extra transmog set and a good weapon. The rest conquest gear can be gotten at any arena rating.


So, PVPers do have to grind for something.
11/05/2012 10:40 PMPosted by Enhancement
Blizzard has decided that Valor points get spent in large quantities for incremental ilvl upgrades to epic items. That's the relative weight of Valor in MoP, after 5.1. If you happened to work hard on Rep, they've said you can also spend your valor on the epic items from each Rep (as opposed to gold, in earlier expansions).


Have you even seen what is available now or what is coming in 5.1? Valor is still a very legitimate currency. The biggest challenges are that it has become much more difficult to cap, which I'm perfectly ok with, and that there's currently no way to spend it without a fairly heavy dedication to dailies.

There's still no clarity as to whether the upgrade system will require a rep, or which rep for that matter.
11/05/2012 10:51 PMPosted by Infernalist
Arena ratings basically just give 2200 players get an extra transmog set and a good weapon. The rest conquest gear can be gotten at any arena rating.


So, PVPers do have to grind for something.


If by "grind" you mean "play the game how they want to play" then sure.
I've seen quite a bit of dismay over the state of how reputations/dailies/charms/valor work in this expansion. I feel there is room for improvement, and the upcoming reputation boost we get at revered with a faction for our accounts is a nice start. I do like the way charms work, it gives us a reason to do dailies(outside of the reputation grind).

I do want to take a step back though and say I don't understand the reputation requirements for purchasing valor gear. It isn't a big problem on a main, as you are probably running dailies for the content/charms/other reputation rewards. I can't speak for everyone, but when it comes to an alt, doing dailies is a very unwanted chore, I already feel pressured to do them on my main to get rep, charms, and try and open up valor purchases, so I don't cap out on valor. The last thing I want to do is run dailies on an alt, but again, if I want access to using my valor, I have to.

Can't say I have the solution, but I do have an idea. Since I doubt that removing reputation requirements for valor purchases is an option. How about something similar to your double rep token at revered. Which is also a compromise to people wanting tabards mind you. The idea I have is when you reach exalted with a faction on a character, that character can then buy a Bind on Account Tabard that rewards reputation from lvl 90 dungeons/heroics. Which can then be mailed to your alt of choice, and bypass dailies(for reputation purposes) on that character.

I understand blizzard designed dailies as a source of content, and you don't want players to miss out on that content, but a player who has gotten to exalted through dailies, has no doubt seen the content, and can still do it if they choose to. But they shouldn't be forced into it in my humble opinion.


I do want to take a step back though and say I don't understand the reputation requirements for purchasing valor gear.


Part of the problem is that Blizzard has changed the meaning of "valor gear." In Cataclysm, "valor gear" meant gear you bought simply by accumulating valor. That kind of "valor gear" just doesn't exist anymore. Blizzard deliberately and intentionally took that system out of the game.

Another part of the problem is that Rep gear looks too much like the old valor gear. The fact that you purchase Rep gear using valor points is incidental to the fact that you earn that gear by increasing reputation.

Blizzard has also changed (repeatedly, in fact) the way you earn reputation. The current iteration is that you earn it though unlockable daily faction-based quests. This presents a pretty dramatic difference to players who are used to putting on a tabard and passively earning rep while doing random dungeons. It's also pretty different from other systems they've used (Runecloth turn-ins anyone?). Again, though, this was a deliberate and intentional change to the system. They thought the other systems were too easy.

It seems like the combination of the two changes might have been too large a paradigm shift for some players to adjust.
@CM_Zarhym I have an idea that may very well make it the best of both worlds regarding the Charms of Good Fortune, allow us more then one method to gain these charms EX: tied in with professions, raiding (hence how they are used, it can be a return investment and keep things like LFR populated with both seasoned vets and new people alike), also have them earned by doing the weekly kill of a boss like they did back in WotLK for frost badges.

You could still leave the option for dailies for those who have a difficult time with the other methods but at the same time allow people to work for the badges in a different method? By still having the weekly turn in cap it prevents people from abusing the other methods.

Any thoughts?
It's amazing how people don't think back to TBC and Vanilla.. When you had 1 (ONE) shot every week at loot... Turning up to Karazhan... Slogging away for a few hours to drop Prince and not have ya helm drop, turning up the week after and have it won by another class cos ya lost the roll.. Now you have 4 chances at loot every week... LFR, Normal, Heroic and coins.. And people STILL whine.. This game has become more and more casual as the expansions go on.. Yet people find more and more to whinge about.. Not only do you have 4 chances but also back up vendors where you can get equal (if not better, depending on spec) gear to help you progress.. I'm glad blizzard makes some stuff hard to get.. Makes you appreciate it more when you get there.. There is nothing wrong with the blue heroic gear.. Most bosses are tuned to be killed in blues in MV until probably Elegon.. So work hard, drop bosses, keep grinding and the rewards will come.. Sooner or later.. If you wanna risk boss drops without coins every week, then more power to you.. Personally I wanna have a double shot at certain bosses for extra gear :-) so I will grind dailies until I have enough every week!

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