hmm?

General Discussion
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IMO raiding should be raiding, end of. Stop adding features to aid people in raiding normal content easier. Instead use that time to add more things for people to do outside of raiding.

We keep getting more things to do but they all are advantageous for people that have lots of time to burn when it comes to progression for raiding. Meaning you have to do them as well if you want to be competitive with those other people.

I don't bother raiding anymore. I like doing LFR for gear to progress my character but I can totally understand how people feel they need to do LFR and get coins so they can remain competitive to other guilds. It's just another layer of stuff you have to do to keep up with the Jones'.

Maybe some day Blizzard can implement a true guild progression scoreboard into the client and make LFR gear scale back to dungeon ilevels so that it's no advantageous to anyone.
the Elder coins were implemented to reward the players who put the increased time and effort in to obtain them. In no way are they needed to get loot. Consider it a bonus for the worker who does some overtime. Put some thought into an idea before posting trash like this on the forums. thanks.


Eh, not so much in terms of the coins because the coins are SPECIFICALLY raid currency. It's more like earning overtime by working extra hours on a completely different job. I like my job (raiding, in this case), and don't want to work a second job as a stockboy (dailies) to get a bonus from my first job.


Eh, not so much in terms of the coins because the coins are SPECIFICALLY raid currency. It's more like earning overtime by working extra hours on a completely different job. I like my job (raiding, in this case), and don't want to work a second job as a stockboy (dailies) to get a bonus from my first job.


No, that's not a fair way of looking at it. I see it like they are bonus rolls for people that do the dailies. You want bonus rolls for raiding by raiding? That doesn't make any sense. You're saying if you do more raids you should get bonus rolls? You only have one lockout. If you did more raids than the lockout allows that would be a bonus within itself negating the reason to have the emblems.

Soooo, you get emblems to have bonus rolls in your bonus raids? Seems silly.


In essence, yes. I feel that I should earn any bonus for the content that I prefer by doing the content that I prefer. No, I do not want them handed to me, nor do I want free gear. I simply want the work involved with earning them to be related in any way, shape or form to the content they are designed for.

I don't want extra raids to accomplish that, the idea is just silly. I think that either creating "Raid Dailies" -- quests that require looting certain items from bosses or something similar would be a good idea, and much more relevant to the content. Allowing Valor to be spent on lesser charms would also possibly work, though I haven't given a lot of though to the potential pros and cons to that idea.
SOOOO an idea!!!! the devs say that tabord rep and gold/loot is too much for doing a dungeon???

so why not make it one or the other....

If you have a tabord on to get rep with a faction you dont get the gold/chance at loot off bosses.

If you dont have a rep tabord equipped you get no rep and instead gold/loot....

This makes it so that even after you have all the gear you need from dungeons you still need to run them for rep.

If you want...put a daily rep cap so that you cant run 1000 dungeons in one day can get capped.

THIS would give people a choice on how they grind rep
11/05/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Zarhym
Is the only way to get the Elder Charm Coins is by doing dailys by getting 90 of the good coins and turning them into 3 elder...? that sort of forces u into dailys if so.. because u know people want that extra chance in Raid to get the gear so your know there going do dailys to get a silly coin that doesnt even help one bit gg..

"Gear drops in raids like it always has."
"I like gear like I always have."
"But I want bonus chances at that gear."
"I have to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear?!"
"I don't want to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear!"
"That thing I don't want to do that would earn me bonus chances at that gear, doesn't earn me bonus chances at that gear!"

Let me know if that's an accurate summary, as well as what you're talking about. o.O


Come on we all know you want to use the ">" in from of every sentence
I kind of agree that the dailies have gotten out of hand. I want to make a new character for my guild, and when I log on I have the choice of either doing dailies for leveling. Dailies went from being an hour log chore to a 4-6 hour mind f***. I didn't mind doing them in the past maybe if some of the kill quests weren't so annoying with the mobs having a huge amount of health pools. I log on do dailies log off. I can't even do 1 heroic anymore. So I agree they did get a little out of hand on the dailies this go around.
"Gear drops in raids like it always has.""I like gear like I always have.""But I want bonus chances at that gear.""I have to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear?!""I don't want to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear!""That thing I don't want to do that would earn me bonus chances at that gear, doesn't earn me bonus chances at that gear!"Let me know if that's an accurate summary, as well as what you're talking about. o.O


Well, it would be really nice to know what piece of gear I'm getting a bonus roll on rather than a pop-up asking if I want a bonus roll.

My other suggestion is to be able to something else with the lesser charms. I turned in my 90 today and still have 300 of them in my bank. Since I'm still grinding rep with 4 of the factions... 6 LFR bosses per week, plus 2 world bosses and only 3 tokens to use on gear you can't see before hand... I like the concept but the actual execution/implementation is fail!


In essence, yes. I feel that I should earn any bonus for the content that I prefer by doing the content that I prefer. No, I do not want them handed to me, nor do I want free gear. I simply want the work involved with earning them to be related in any way, shape or form to the content they are designed for.


Raiding = killing things
Dailies = killing things
Relation = killing things

Doing raids = Gear drops.

Doing dailies = Valor points and reputation to get valor gear + cosmetic items.

Doing raids and dailies = All of the above.

Your choice.

I chose doing dailies. I don't have time to raid, it's just way to time consuming and having to commit to a specific schedule is out of my realm of possibilities with my work schedule being so sporadic.

So... What do you do when you are not in a raid? You just log in at raid times then do the raid then log out?


I am glad that the current game design lends itself well to your particular play style. But my play style is different from yours, and I would like more options relevant to the content that I enjoy.

It can certainly be argued that both raiding and doing dailies are doing the same things over and over. My perspective as a raid healer is much different though, because the other players within a raid may respond in different ways providing a varied experience from week to week. In LFR in particular, no two raids have ever been the same for me. Dailies on the other hand are scripted events with very little variation. Even with "different dailies on different days", within a week you've most likely seen them all and there is no longer any variation. Some people enjoy predictability, and I do not...and neither side is wrong in enjoying a certain play style.

Please note, again, that my only issue is with Elder Charms. I don't have a problem with the daily system in general nor the gear gating associated with it.

As for when I am not raiding: Currently I'm either farming materials for my professions, goofing around on alts (which is losing its appeal), or simply doing something outside of WoW. I occasionally do dailies, too...Tillers absolutely caught my interest and thus I'm exalted with them, primarily for the benefit to my cooking and gardening. I was interested in the rewards, the rewards were gained by doing content relevant to them, and I was okay with that. For most other purposes, the only reward I am interested in is not relevant to the content they are designed for.
I'm more concerned that the Elder whatever are flat out useless.

It might as well be a 23g loot bag.
I've have got a fist weapon, a helm, and something else on my rogue with the bonus rolls, it is not impossible
11/06/2012 06:11 PMPosted by Goldenlotus
Seems kinda silly to go through all that trouble when you can just spend 45 minutes when you log on to do dailies.


It takes longer than 45 minutes to do dailies. If you start with GL since you're probably at Two Moons, thats 25 minutes right there, then a 10 minute flight out to the shado-pan hub, another 20 minutes of dailies there, 5 minutes to fly to Klaxxi, another 15-30 minutes there depending on if you have to compete for the shackles or not, hearth back to shrine to vendor/repair, pick up AC and fly god only knows where, another 5-10 minute trip. 15-20 for the AC dailies, then there's still Cloud Serpent, Tiller's and Angler's. Don't forget that for Angler's it's 5-150+ casts to catch each of the Pagle fish in 3 different zones.

If you can do that in 45 minutes, I'd submit a ticket against you, as you are obviously hacking.
!@#$

11/05/2012 07:38 PMPosted by Fubukie

"Gear drops in raids like it always has."
"I like gear like I always have."
"But I want bonus chances at that gear."
"I have to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear?!"
"I don't want to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear!"
"That thing I don't want to do that would earn me bonus chances at that gear, doesn't earn me bonus chances at that gear!"

Let me know if that's an accurate summary, as well as what you're talking about. o.O


Why is every post I see made by you some snarky remark? Very unbecoming and unprofessional behavior. OP's concern: Very valid. I'm also sick of this horrible solo content (100 dailies / day) shoved down my throat.
Don't even have time to try out the pet battle system because all my time is spent doing dallies.
Ok, after reading 3 pages of this and getting a headache from the stupidity I'm going to try my best to write this in a way people can understand.

Dailies are NOT required. Now I know someone will argue this point. I'll do my best to point out why this is the way things are

Rep - Dailies for the ones you want and only those. Soon as you're exalted, no more dailies.
Gear - Heroics, LFR, Raids, Scenarios...etc. Whats that? Nothing ever drops for you? Get used to it. After 5 years in this game I sure have. You want extra chances at gear? WORK FOR IT. I mean honestly, anything less and they might as well integrate a second roll and then you can get gold from both and not have a "bonus" roll at all. Quit begging for free hand outs. Raids can be done in Heroic Blues this has been the way entry level raids have been since LONG before LFR ever existed.
Valor, see above.

I did see one post about someone saying that a guild was kicking raiders for not doing dailies to get gear. That's not blizzards fault, that's whoever gave someone the power to run how people play the game in that guild.

Take a look at my gear, take a look at my reps. Guess what, I've skipped dailies plenty. I've pet battled, I've pvp'd, I've raided, I've even leveled a monk from 1-90 and have gear on her, and she's got even less rep/gear than my mage does.

I lothed the day they put in "Rep Tabards". I mean to just put one on and run dungeons over and over to gain rep? Too easy, boring, and honestly the whole premise behind it was "we're a champion for this cause, we're going to massacre you in their name and they love us for it". Think that one over. At least with daily rep grinds there's a reason they respect you. You help them out by doing things they ask you to do.

As for the Elder coins. It doesn't take much to get the turn in each week. I know people that do all the dailies they can every day and have a stockpile of 2000+ lesser charms. This shows exactly how easy it is to acquire 90 of them for a turn in that is a weekly thing. It the turn in were daily, I could see an issue. It's not, you pick what you spend the coins on. I've stopped using them in MSV on LFR because frankly there's little I can use out of there anyway so why waste them? Use one a week on sha, and save the rest for normal raids if you're that desperate for gear.

"But I want bonus chances at that gear."


Here's where it breaks down. Nobody asked for this system with "extra chances" at gear. Somebody at Blizzard thought it would be fun. The problem is, that the raider mentality is that "I have to do everything I can to be the best or I'm a hindrance to the other 24 people who raid with me." So everybody works hard to min/max because anything less makes them the non-team player.

The problem is, they're all doing it out of a sense of obligation rather than fun. When people step back, they realize that while parts of raiding might be fun, the tedium it requires far exceeds the fun-factor. This is why there's a constant stream of people getting burned out from it and quitting. Many remain involved, but like Farmville, it's often a sense of social-obligation to the people you play with that keeps you coming back.

So here's the situation for me, let me know what you think I ought to be doing:

1) I like Battlegrounds, they're fun. But I no longer do them. Why? Because they no longer offer me rewards. It took a day to get full 358 gear, and after that, I kept doing the daily until the daily "stopped counting" once you hotfixed the conquest point reward to be redundant with points earned by arena. It's a bit less fun when there's no reward.

2) I like Random Battlegrounds, but they're too hard to organize. You've taken steps to work on this, but it would be nice if you could queue solo for a random battleground. Let your algorithm measure independent player contribution by wins over time. Solo queues can work.

3) I like arena, but after my cap each week, I rarely keep playing.

4) I hate daily quests. They're a tedious chore. I've earned exalted tillers and lore walkers, but aside from Forest Hozen and Cloud Serpent, all the other factions seem like *impossible grinds*. So long and tedious I won't even start them. I still haven't hit exalted with the Molten Front and the Argent Crusade. Why? Because I can't suffer through *that* many days of consecutive daily quests. I just can't manage it.

5) I've done 6 heroic dungeons during MoP. There are dungeons I've literally never seen. Why? Again, no reward. I can't get rep anymore (like the conquest hotfix, another huge mistake in terms of keeping re-playability high). No rep, valor points I can't use (because I have no rep), and no gear worthwhile for anyone who's been level 90 for more than 5 hours of /played.

In cataclysm, I used to do a battleground every day. You've made that pointless. I used to do my daily dungeon frequently, that is also pointless (largely because of rep system changes). I used to raid, but you've made that increasingly tedious (charms, cauldrons removed, no 300 stat feast), so I no longer do.

In short, I've got a few weekly arena matches to look forward to and just about nothing else--all because of fairly recent changes which undercut my reasons for participating in other types of play. Obviously, I'm strongly of the opinion that dungeons (hell raids too) out to give rep, random battlegrounds ought to give the same conquest points as RBGS, and raiding should be made easier, not harder and no faction should ever require more than 2 weeks worth of consecutive daily quests to reach exalted. Blizzard seems to disagree.
11/05/2012 08:01 PMPosted by Guapísima
As you kinda say, there's more than one way to play the game. No reason, for a CM, to be an !@# when responding to PAYING CUSTOMERS.
so for just $20 a month I should be able to !@#$ all over you for no consequence because I'm a paying customer?

sorry the world doesn't work like that. you pay to play the game.

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