Make LFR and Normal/Heroic Share same lockout

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Lol this just gets better n better thx for the humor it's incredible! Had me laughing on the last post but now I'm just a rolling tauren.
11/01/2012 11:25 AMPosted by Buttercookie
My point is that everyone including you has now said there is no need to run LFR and Normal each week, so why would any normal mode raider care that they could only do normal modes over LFR difficulties each week?


Then don't. if you're such a pro, your normal heoric gear should be enough.
Normal/Heroic Raiders have no business in LFR.

It wasnt designed for YOU.
The gear it rewards is inferior to YOURS.

If your Guild is "forcing" you to run it each week, thats YOUR problem...not ours.


^
11/01/2012 11:06 AMPosted by Zarhym
Are you in a guild that has success with Heroic raid progression? This one's pretty important, as any guild that's good enough to be farming, or at least killing several bosses in, Heroic Mogu'shan Vaults and Heart of Fear by the time Terrace of Endless Spring opens via LFR, will not likely need a single piece of gear from LFR. Terrace of Endless Spring LFR items won't be as good as your Heroic raid gear.


The fact that you assume "success with Heroic raid progression" means you have to be killing several heroic raid bosses this early in the tier... is exactly why I quit raiding.

I do not like that Blizzard's definition of "success" means you have to move up to heroic raids that quickly. It's an awful and false assumption to make, that excludes people who are good at the game but don't have a lot of time to play (i.e. guilds that are hardcore mindset, casual schedule). They will get there but not this soon. What is THEIR experience with LFR?

Regarding the statement that small differences in ilvl aren't that important... then why does LFR gear even exist? If it isn't important, why does *anyone* need it? This makes no sense at all. Surely it exists for some purpose, and it sure isn't for casual players doing heroic 5-mans, because that can be done in blues very easily and you know it.
Please LFR is the worst thing ever and I'm sick of feeling that I have to run it to get a gear edge for normal raiding.

Please make it share a lockout so raiders are not forced into the monstrosity that you have created.


Something that I think is overlooked here... wouldn't your guild or whatever force you to do it anyway? Except you know, you'll have to wait even more because they share a lockout.
How does the koreans have seperate 10 & 25m lockouts but we are forced to have our lockouts together. They were also tested with double resets in FL, anyone would like to explain Blizzards reasoning in giving Koreans everything the US players want?


You are gimping your raid group by not running it. I'm sick of feeling that I have to suffer through the mess that is LFR each and every week.



My LFR experience is much much better than DS LFR was in Cata. In fact its about equal or a slight bit more enjoyable than current heroic dungeons are. I don't know why you call it a mess or a monstrosity. You're being way overly dramatic.

It makes no sense to me either that people feel they are suffering through LFR when they'll happily raid normal on a dozen alts.
NO. They need to remove all shared lockouts. If we want to run Normal 10/25 Heroic 10/25 and LFR we should be able to.
11/01/2012 11:47 AMPosted by Koica
Are you in a guild that has success with Heroic raid progression? This one's pretty important, as any guild that's good enough to be farming, or at least killing several bosses in, Heroic Mogu'shan Vaults and Heart of Fear by the time Terrace of Endless Spring opens via LFR, will not likely need a single piece of gear from LFR. Terrace of Endless Spring LFR items won't be as good as your Heroic raid gear.


The fact that you assume "success with Heroic raid progression" means you have to be killing several heroic raid bosses this early in the tier... is exactly why I quit raiding.

I do not like that Blizzard's definition of "success" means you have to move up to heroic raids that quickly. It's an awful and false assumption to make, that excludes people who are good at the game but don't have a lot of time to play (i.e. guilds that are hardcore mindset, casual schedule). They will get there but not this soon. What is THEIR experience with LFR?


I think you misunderstood the implied meaning of "success" in that question. I'm fairly certain (at least by the wording) that it was only attributed towards the possible attempt, rather than any indication of the guild or player. Kind of like tech support asking "did you successfully reestablish connection to the other line?", there's no hidden meaning behind the word and is just referring to the action/activity mentioned.
11/01/2012 11:11 AMPosted by Zarhym


LFR is accessible to everyone. That is the point of it, for those that can't raid.

As everyone has pointed out in just about every post in this thread there is no need to run LFR if you're doing normal modes so all you normal mode raiders should not care, right?

I'm especially unsure what point you're trying to make here, as it seems like you're invalidating your own argument.


While I don't agree with him, his point was pretty obvious.

His point was that there's no harm in making them share a lockout. LFR was created to allow non raiders to see end game content. If you're not raiding normal and heroic raids, it won't affect you, as you'll still be doing LFR just the same. If you are raiding normal and heroic raids, you're not one of the players who LFR was aimed at and shouldn't care about "missing out" on it as long as other raiders are as well.

The biggest flaw with this plan, of course, is that for decent guilds that aren't hardcore about progression, you'll run LFR for a while before even attempting normals, as 6 chances at 476 loot is going to help you clear content better than 1 chance at 489 loot (particulary the weapons). It also kills pugs, as people aren't going to forego LFR for a week just to maybe kill one boss and then have the raid fall apart, at least not until they're mostly geared out in LFR gear.
11/01/2012 11:25 AMPosted by Buttercookie
I'm especially unsure what point you're trying to make here, as it seems like you're invalidating your own argument.


My point is that everyone including you has now said there is no need to run LFR and Normal each week, so why would any normal mode raider care that they could only do normal modes over LFR difficulties each week?

Mmm.. That's not quite what people are arguing -- at least that's not what I'm arguing.

Yes, I'm saying the game isn't set up so that you'll fail in normal/Heroic raids, if you're not running LFR every lockout as well. But now it sounds like your argument is: "If LFR isn't required for normal progression, no one should care if they share lockouts."

That's very flawed.

You first said we're literally forcing you to do LFR to progress. I pointed out that you're not actually forced to do it, in that you shouldn't hit a brick wall in progression because you didn't collect enough LFR gear. Now you're saying you want us to force everyone to choose between LFR and normal difficulty each week, just because it's not mandatory to run both.

I don't understand the value in asserting that we're forcing you, by design, to make certain raid progression choices -- when we're actually not -- and then arguing we should more directly force everyone to make certain raid progression choices.
I'm especially unsure what point you're trying to make here, as it seems like you're invalidating your own argument.


My point is that everyone including you has now said there is no need to run LFR and Normal each week, so why would any normal mode raider care that they could only do normal modes over LFR difficulties each week?
because then they CANT run LFR if they WANT to run LFR with their friends and family and guildmates who DONT raid normals/heroics
11/01/2012 11:06 AMPosted by Zarhym
With stat inflation, the difference between these item levels is almost negligible, unless you're comparing full sets.


Zarhym, you don't understand the itemization formula. A 13 ilvl difference is really, really significant, and it wouldn't matter if we were going from lvl 100 to 113 or from level 1023956102357886 to 1023956102357899.
Yea sure, kick all the raiders out of LFR so all you have left are people that think they can walk in there and one shot every boss without knowing a single thing about the instance. Have fun wiping all the time and having to constantly refill the group after every wipe. This happens now with a few "geared" raiders in there and gets worse as the week goes on when there are no raiders left in the queue.

I tried doing an LFR on a Monday after all the good players had done it for the week and I will never do that again. The number of people that keep standing on the platform on elegon when it disappears is astonishing.
Please LFR is the worst thing ever and I'm sick of feeling that I have to run it to get a gear edge for normal raiding.

Please make it share a lockout so raiders are not forced into the monstrosity that you have created.
Blizzard should not have to make changes just because you cannot stand up to your guild. Like many things in the game, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean to HAVE to do it. The blue poster summed it up very nicely.
11/01/2012 11:29 AMPosted by Buttercookie
To answer your questions in your first post Z since you like to derail and troll and get paid to do it to your paying customers.

...

I'll leave it here, then, since I've derailed your simple demand thread by... talking to you logically about it. (?)

11/01/2012 11:29 AMPosted by Buttercookie
Are you in a guild that has success with Heroic raid progression?


In the past yes, we will be starting heroic progression mixed in with HOF this week.

Is your guild demanding that you run LFR every week for the chance at some upgrades you haven't made via normal difficulty yet?


It's not demanded. But as I already said and as you know for some of us its about being in the best possible set up you can achieve on your character. Maybe those slight numbers between 463 and 476 aren't much but added up over multiple slots it adds up a lot.

How badly are you really hurting your raid by not running LFR?


That's subjective as there is no true way to find out. Let's just assume a raid group of ten people each person has two pieces of LFR gear, that's a lot of extra stats across the raid and def helps against something like a elegon fight with tight enrages.

Right. So it's a choice you're making for every advantage in the game. Do you want every advantage possible in the game? 'Cause you have to put in extra effort for that.
11/01/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Quard
Zarhym, you don't understand the itemization formula. A 13 ilvl difference is really, really significant, and it wouldn't matter if we were going from lvl 100 to 113 or from level 1023956102357886 to 1023956102357899.


I dont think its as black and white as you make it out to be, 13 ilevel increase for one item is not significant as your making it sound, an overall 13 ilevel increase really, really significant. To which I think is the point Zarhym is making by saying "Full Set"

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