Garalon Changes - Raid Finder, Normal, Heroic

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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11/10/2012 09:42 PMPosted by Darkfriend
Blade fury, which only strikes an additional target I can see. SS, which transfers a percentage of damage done is different.

Blade Flurry: While active, your attacks strike an additional nearby opponent, but Energy regeneration is reduced by 20%. Lasts until canceled.

Sweeping Strikes: Your melee attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 10 sec.

11/10/2012 10:30 PMPosted by Sharpbladez
Can you explain why you announce nerfs to LFR, but dont restart the servers or announce when your going to restart the servers for them to take effect?

taking servers down to nerf easymode would really be a slap in the face.
11/10/2012 10:13 AMPosted by Crithto
With regard to all raid difficulties, after further testing the encounter, we realized that certain abilities were having unintended effects. Blade Flurry, Inferno Blast and Sweeping Strikes were doing double damage to Garalon's body while attacking his legs, which was not intended. We are currently implementing a hotfix, which should take effect after realms are restarted, that will cause these abilities to do normal damage to the body while continuing to do double damage to the legs.

Want to know another ability causing what I hope is unintended effects? Killing Spree. Would be great if you could fix that just chain triggering crushes. I had just assumed that "bug" with the legs was just compensation for completely negating the use of one of our most useful DPS cooldowns.

Pretty sure Killing Spree used to position the character in the air, why the change? Now using that ability gets me killed by crushes, cobalt mines and any other void zone out there.
Blade Flurry: While active, your attacks strike an additional nearby opponent, but Energy regeneration is reduced by 20%. Lasts until canceled.

Sweeping Strikes: Your melee attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 10 sec.


Sweeping Strikes is 50% of the original damage. Blade Flurry is not. You should know not to trust tool tips.
10-mans with combat rogues are going to be sorely surprised by the berserk next week, because they wouldn't have had enough issues to wipe very long on it. We have a mage and a warrior, but that doesn't compare to how broken Blade Flurry was on Garalon.

Absolutely silly to leave his HP the same yet nerf the cleave mechanics that everyone's been forced to maximize.
Speaking as a spec that gets the short end of the stick with cleaving, I have no sympathy for you.

Get back to me when you get to have all the disadvantages of melee, no cleave, and only ok aoe.

These arguments in PVE are always ridiculous. Yes classes need to be balanced, but in this case you're talking about a few classes that allowed the other classes to even see the encounter. Now most guilds won't have any choice but to stack those few classes due to this "fix".

i beg to differ but ive had different experiences if you aqre patient and take the time to get everyone on the same page then you can have a good run and down him. The problem is was and probably always will be people bashing on others that either dont have the raid experience or dont know the fight they get belittled and probably cant focus on what they should be doing and likely you will get the people who say Wow these guys are asses im going to do whatever i can to make them wipe and i ask you all in that instance WHO REALLY is the greifer!

In conclusion treat people with a little respect and have a little patience and you too will down this boss!

The difference is that asking players that have downed the encounter to sit around every single raid cycle for an hour+ on the same boss they've already killed while waiting 10-15 wipes for people to understand concepts like "Don't stand in the gigantic purple circle" is completely and utterly unreasonable.

LFR is a great idea, but we're honestly hitting a point in encounter design where it's simply not feasible. There's no excuse to not know fight mechanics, Dungeon Journal is there. Even at that, there are very few mechanics in the game that are difficult to comprehend. Garalon is a poorly designed and buggy (har har) boss to begin with, but the design also requires everybody to pay attention and have a clue. The playerbase is, sadly, never going to be at that level.

One huge problem is a lot of LFR-specific design relies on the tanks. It's seemingly designed almost exclusively under the premise that the two tanks can run the instance, take all of the important jobs, and carry any number of bad healers/dps through it. Unfortunately, a huge number of tanks don't understand that's there job or simply aren't up to the playing level to do so.

TL;DR - 'Fix' is still a bad idea, Raiding is simply too complex for the 'general populace'.
LFR Garalon is going to cause a lot for problems and needs to be adjusted. The coordination required is above LFR standards. If tanks are not paying attention Fury will wipe the raid and if the DPS is not paying attention Pheromone Trails and Crush will kill the raid.

No one ever said LFR was intended to be loot pinatas but the mentality of the LFR player does not lend itself to a Garalon like encounter. After one or two wipes half the raid leaves and you have to teach another 10-15 players about the encounter. An encounter where 1-2 mistakes can and does wipe the raid. This cycle repeats itself over and over.

I have been in four "The Dread Approach" LFR. All have been on Garalon. You will see the same cycle over and over if nothing changes. Players will kill the first two bosses then leave.

I suggest lessening the damage buff from Fury and/or making only the back legs killable (since attacking the front legs is asking to give the DPS Pheromones) but have them count for 6% of his health each.
Finally got into a fresh LFR this AM on my warrior (OMG 0/6!). First 2 bosses were (as I assumed) easy one shots. Galaron - after 5 wipes we couldn't get him past 80% - dps were causing crushes and getting Pheromones...constantly. It doesn't matter how well you explain a fight - your average PuG refuses to listen or is too "challenged" to pay attention to what they are doing - they just want to press buttons and get loot.

I would say keep it like it is and force people to adapt and learn, but then it would be months before I see the rest of HoF or ToES, so...yeah.
We're the only US 25 guild to kill this fight post-cleave hotfix so I just wanted to clear some things up with people who are legitimately worried about the unfairness of buffing a fights difficulty after only a handful of guilds have killed it. Yes, as our friend from Infallible pointed out we used 4 rogues and 1 warrior (although I wouldn't describe that as stacking the raid as he put it), for anyone concerned though about the newly tuned difficulty of this fight, there isn't much to fear. It's still a cake walk for you if your guild is able to kill Vizier. We killed Garalon after about two and a half hours of pulls and beat enrage by 10 seconds despite having a DPS dead for the majority of the fight. The enrage is extremely forgiving compared to other fights in MV.
I haven't seen Garalon even come close to being killed today. The whole raid takes consistent, heavy damage; far more than the healers can keep up with. We all die pretty quickly, within the first two or three minutes. The boss spins frequently to face different directions, making it impossible to stand near a leg to deal damage.

I think it would be prudent to assume a significantly lower level of coordination than you do even now in LFR. This fight in my view should be tuned down farther in LFR. For the most part the other fights in LFR can be mindlessly zerged down, and I think this fight may give some individual players too much power over the outcome of the whole raid. It should be assumed that players do not understand the fight going into it, as unfortunate as that is.
STILL no restart 1 day later.

Simply amazing.
Presumably the hotfix will form part of the weekly maintenance schedule at this stage.
Does the cleave change include the Warlock spell Havoc?
Has the the change of Blade Flurry for the normal and heroic encounter been made already?
or it is coming like 2morrow
We have a few updates regarding the hotfixes, and a couple new changes based upon some of the feedback we've received:

  • In Raid Finder, the 30-second cooldown added to Garalon's Crush ability didn't properly apply through our most recent hotfix. We've isolated the issue and will apply a new hotfix to address this tomorrow during restarts.
  • Also included in the next hotfix, the Raid Finder version of Pungency (with relation to Garalon's Pheromones ability) will only stack 20 times, and Fury will only stack 5 times.
  • Once the realms are back up tomorrow, classes with pets can rejoice! All class pets will now gain the Weak Points buff in all versions of the encounter (Raid Finder, Normal, and Heroic).

  • EDIT: Clarification, not just Hunter pets, but all classes that have pets.
    11/12/2012 11:53 AMPosted by Vèngeance
    But will you literally carry me...? That's the question.
    Yay Crihto! Good job, here's your bone you loveable pug.

    I'm a big dog lover what can I say.

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