How feedback works and why it matters

General Discussion
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One thing I want to throw out there is that BLizzard does do internal testing on things before they throw them out to the PTRs. THat said, I don't really know enough about the complaint or the proposed solution to say whether or not I think they made the right choice in doing what they did, but it's possible that they did sufficient internal testing to arrive at that conclusion.

On a more broad note regarding feedback, this is how I try to think about it (depending on how cynical I'm feeling): If you make feedback, it may or may not get ignored. If you don't make any feedback, it will get ignored.


There is a very easy way to get feedback:

1. Select a panel of players with all kinds of lifestyles.

2. Make the test your quests or whatever else.

3. Once you're done, you do a survey to ask each player if they liked it or not and ask for the reasons.

Just beta testing is not enough. Sometimes people will not give feedback because they will think blizz is just testing for bugs and not actually trying to see if people like the things added.


OR blizzard can use the professional testers whose job it is to actually test content in the game.

Not only that but Blizzard has a pool of 200+ people and their families to test stuff internally and give honest feedback. No real reason to seek opinions on a small group of players whose interest aren't going to be as varies as the spouses and kids of your own employees


Actually they sent a poll to peoples email at the end of Cata.


Huh funny I nor my wife got one!!!!!


Funny I didn't ether, and you would think they would have players who took part in Cata Beta on that survey list. You know some one who played it from even before the beginning of the expansion all the way to the end.
11/14/2012 11:18 PMPosted by Naughty
They love feedback so much that they completely removed the suggestions forum lol


THIS.
11/14/2012 11:04 PMPosted by Kas
We must have missed all the awesome feedback in the forums that led to this expansion. Things like "Please, lock all the progression gear that offsets bad RNG behind multiple levels of daily quest grinds."


Yes you did
"Cata sucks, make things like how they were in Vanilla, BC and Wrath."
"BC was the best expansion ever"
"There is nothing to do other then sit in cities and wait for queues to pop"
"Blizzard the world feels empty, make it more populated"

need I go on?
They love feedback so much that they completely removed the suggestions forum lol


THIS.


They also removed in-game beta feedback, during MoP beta.


THIS.


They also removed in-game beta feedback, during MoP beta.


because it wasn't working half the time. When it was people were mixing up feedback with bugs (which need to go to two separate places) So at the end of the day it was better for them to simply yank it then leave it in.


They also removed in-game beta feedback, during MoP beta.


because it wasn't working half the time. When it was people were mixing up feedback with bugs (which need to go to two separate places) So at the end of the day it was better for them to simply yank it then leave it in.


See my previous post on page 6:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7006898525?page=6#104

I took part in both the Cata and MoP betas. The feedback system for the Cata Beta, and PTR was vastly superior. In Cata after you finished a quest or dungeon, an in-game survey would pop up, and asked you several questions like: Did you enjoy it, find it too easy, too hard, etc.... It also had a place to report any bugs you might of found in the quest/dungeon. We could be open, and totally honest about our feedback as the only ones who saw it was Blizzard.

In MoP Beta &/or PTR, we had none of this, all feedback was done through the forums only. I tried to give my feedback in the forums, but the flame wars, forum, and in game harassment, made it too much of a pain in the neck to deal with. Also since we couldn't even open a ticket, if we found an exploit we had no private way of letting Blizzard know about it, with letting the whole world know as well.

So if Blizzard really wants good honest feedback, give us a way to do it without having to worry about the forum trolls.


In Cata Beta and early Cata PTR, they had two ways to report bugs. They had a separate report bug icon next to the mini map, as well as in the quest/dungeon survey


because it wasn't working half the time. When it was people were mixing up feedback with bugs (which need to go to two separate places) So at the end of the day it was better for them to simply yank it then leave it in.


ORRRR they could have fixed it?


Or they don't need to waste resources on fixing such a thing for then but hey..you're still here >_>
11/14/2012 11:28 PMPosted by Kas
They love feedback so much that they completely removed the suggestions forum lol


THIS.


THIS squared.


because it wasn't working half the time. When it was people were mixing up feedback with bugs (which need to go to two separate places) So at the end of the day it was better for them to simply yank it then leave it in.


ORRRR they could have fixed it?


Lets see spend time fixing bugs in the actual game, or spend time working out issues with an in game report feature people weren't using properly even when it was working when there was another preferred method of data collection (the forums)

Yeah I would rather them work on game bugs too.


ORRRR they could have fixed it?


Lets see spend time fixing bugs in the actual game, or spend time working out issues with an in game report feature people weren't using properly even when it was working when there was another preferred method of data collection (the forums)

Yeah I would rather them work on game bugs too.


Where we have to worry about trolls and flamers. Again it worked real well during Cata beta.

I have seen players who have tried to give their feedback on how, CRZ has badly affective the ability to level on PvP realms; Only to see them flamed as "Bads", and what do you expect on PvP realms, and told get help from your guild.

However they are well aware that PvP happens on PvP servers, and that there will always be jerks who love to camp Low level areas, and grief low level players by killing them, NPCs, quest givers, and corpse camping. know about the old answer of "PvP solutions for PvP issues." Players on PvP realms have always had to deal with it.

However with CRZs, the old solutions no longer apply. Before if High level Alliance were attacking Crossroads wiping out all of the NPC, including the quest givers, and killing "Noobs;" it was fairly easy for low level players to get help from high level players, from outside of that "Zone."

Now it can be a logistical nightmare getting the help you need, into the same "zone" as you. Because before your "Help" did not necessarily have to group with the toon needing help, now they do. No longer is it as simple, as switching to a toon in Org, and asking for help. Heck Now you can't even switch to a high level toon, and take care of it yourself. because there is no guarantee that you can get that toon into the same zone.

Also if you are able to get a large enough counter attack together, as everyone Zones in; It changes the Population Balance of the zone. Thereby triggering a players/zone realm change. This in turn can get you accused of "Calling Wolf," thereby making it just that much hard to get help the next time.

Then to add insult to injury as soon as your help leave the zone, the chances are good that you will get bounced, right back into the realm, with all of the grievers again.

These players should not have to put up with the forum trolls and flamers in order to express their feedback.


Lets see spend time fixing bugs in the actual game, or spend time working out issues with an in game report feature people weren't using properly even when it was working when there was another preferred method of data collection (the forums)

Yeah I would rather them work on game bugs too.


Where we have to worry about trolls and flamers. Again it worked real well during Cata beta.
I have seen players who have tried to give their feedback on how, CRZ has badly affective the ability to level on PvP realms; Only to see them flamed as "Bads", and what do you expect on PvP realms, and told get help from your guild.

However they are well aware that PvP happens on PvP servers, and that there will always be jerks who love to camp Low level areas, and grief low level players by killing them, NPCs, quest givers, and corpse camping. know about the old answer of "PvP solutions for PvP issues." Players on PvP realms have always had to deal with it.

However with CRZs, the old solutions no longer apply. Before if High level Alliance were attacking Crossroads wiping out all of the NPC, including the quest givers, and killing "Noobs;" it was fairly easy for low level players to get help from high level players, from outside of that "Zone."

Now it can be a logistical nightmare getting the help you need, into the same "zone" as you. Because before your "Help" did not necessarily have to group with the toon needing help, now they do. No longer is it as simple, as switching to a toon in Org, and asking for help. Heck Now you can't even switch to a high level toon, and take care of it yourself. because there is no guarantee that you can get that toon into the same zone.

Also if you are able to get a large enough counter attack together, as everyone Zones in; It changes the Population Balance of the zone. Thereby triggering a players/zone realm change. This in turn can get you accused of "Calling Wolf," thereby making it just that much hard to get help the next time.

Then to add insult to injury as soon as your help leave the zone, the chances are good that you will get bounced, right back into the realm, with all of the grievers again.

These players should not have to put up with the forum trolls and flamers in order to express their feedback.


It's a PvP server. When you chose that type of server, you were saying you wanted the challenge of being killed by higher lvl, better geared players anytime, anywhere.

It's war. When you see an enemy, you kill it. This isn't World of Duelcraft" where every fight is supposed to be even... it's war.

If you can't stand to be killed by a higher lvl player at any given time, you should never leave safe areas or roll on a PvE server.
11/14/2012 11:18 PMPosted by Naughty
They love feedback so much that they completely removed the suggestions forum lol


That forum never really fit the way players posted on the forums. Most people posted feedback in the general forum anyway while there were constant complaints that the suggestion forums were ignored since CMs never posted there.
Lol, like I would listen to a site that is biased as that crap.
That's like going to Fox news to hear good news about Obama.


Where we have to worry about trolls and flamers. Again it worked real well during Cata beta.

I have seen players who have tried to give their feedback on how, CRZ has badly affective the ability to level on PvP realms; Only to see them flamed as "Bads", and what do you expect on PvP realms, and told get help from your guild.

However they are well aware that PvP happens on PvP servers, and that there will always be jerks who love to camp Low level areas, and grief low level players by killing them, NPCs, quest givers, and corpse camping. know about the old answer of "PvP solutions for PvP issues." Players on PvP realms have always had to deal with it.

However with CRZs, the old solutions no longer apply. Before if High level Alliance were attacking Crossroads wiping out all of the NPC, including the quest givers, and killing "Noobs;" it was fairly easy for low level players to get help from high level players, from outside of that "Zone."

Now it can be a logistical nightmare getting the help you need, into the same "zone" as you. Because before your "Help" did not necessarily have to group with the toon needing help, now they do. No longer is it as simple, as switching to a toon in Org, and asking for help. Heck Now you can't even switch to a high level toon, and take care of it yourself. because there is no guarantee that you can get that toon into the same zone.

Also if you are able to get a large enough counter attack together, as everyone Zones in; It changes the Population Balance of the zone. Thereby triggering a players/zone realm change. This in turn can get you accused of "Calling Wolf," thereby making it just that much hard to get help the next time.

Then to add insult to injury as soon as your help leave the zone, the chances are good that you will get bounced, right back into the realm, with all of the grievers again.

These players should not have to put up with the forum trolls and flamers in order to express their feedback.


It's a PvP server. When you chose that type of server, you were saying you wanted the challenge of being killed by higher lvl, better geared players anytime, anywhere.

It's war. When you see an enemy, you kill it. This isn't World of Duelcraft" where every fight is supposed to be even... it's war.

If you can't stand to be killed by a higher lvl player at any given time, you should never leave safe areas or roll on a PvE server.


Again CRZ broke the ability for "PvP solutions for PvP issues." But that was merely an example of the point I was trying to make. The issue here is players should not have to worry about ridicule posts such as yours, when providing feedback to Blizzard. So thank you for helping to illustrate the point.
11/15/2012 12:27 AMPosted by Ewing
The issue here is players should not have to worry about ridicule posts such as yours, when providing feedback to Blizzard.


Ridicule? I'm suprised that someone who has been around the forums as long as you would stoop to calling someone dissagreeing with you "ridicule".

If you want a private conversation with Blizzard you would have to use email, this is a general discussion forum... discussion will sometimes mean that we dissagree on a subject.

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