Blizzard, Are You Serious? More Dailies?

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I think I rather like going into a Dungeon with some AC/DC playing rather than "epic" classical. Just seems to fit better. But to each his own. I like that there is that option. and that this is a thread where there is no troll and no ones flaming someone.
11/30/2012 01:13 PMPosted by Punt
Rep runs and loot runs would be shared. Those that entered with rep mode turned on wont be able to loot, and those that didnt would. So there would be MORE people queing not les, those queing for loot and those queing for rep and charms.


I've said a few times I'd find this acceptable. The important thing is that a rep run be a rep run and not "earn rep while I'm doing my gearing run", in order to make people actively decide they want to spend that time grinding rep rather than doing something else.

I still prefer the idea of just tiering dungeons to have more difficult ones that drop better loot, and not crossing over with rep at all. Just add a whole new gear path people can choose to do.
11/30/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Pandemagium
It's because they know damn well that if they made dailies truly optional, people would not do them.


so explain why the argent tournament was pretty popular for awhile? none of the rewards were in any way better than things we could get in heroics, mostly vanity items, and took way longer to achieve. ...well besides the city reps of course. But people were still doing them even when it was "old content".

We didn't have to do it, but it was something to do alongside the content we got. These pandaria dailies ARE the content that we have and seemingly the raids and dungeons are the "alongside" stuff to do.
11/30/2012 12:15 PMPosted by Alysson
There is no probably about it. There is enough VP gear unlocked at honored (by just finishing Dread Wastes and Townlong Steppes) to take at least 4, if not 6 weeks of valor caps to buy.


What are you talking about?

You can hit honored with the Klaxxi for doing Dread Wastes - which will get you a neck that costs 1250VP. That's 2 weeks - or, realistically, 8 days. You cannot hit honored with Shado-Pan from zone quests unless you are human, are in a guild that has rank two Mr. Popularity and have killed Sha of Anger for the quest.

11/30/2012 12:15 PMPosted by Alysson
Surely, some rep can be done casually during those 4 to 6 weeks to unlock the other 476 pieces and eventually 489.


None of the VP rewards are 476. They're all 489. That's 6 item levels higher than anything you can get outside of organized raiding, by the way. LFR tops out at 483.
11/30/2012 01:35 PMPosted by Alelsa
Rep runs and loot runs would be shared. Those that entered with rep mode turned on wont be able to loot, and those that didnt would. So there would be MORE people queing not les, those queing for loot and those queing for rep and charms.


I've said a few times I'd find this acceptable. The important thing is that a rep run be a rep run and not "earn rep while I'm doing my gearing run", in order to make people actively decide they want to spend that time grinding rep rather than doing something else.

I still prefer the idea of just tiering dungeons to have more difficult ones that drop better loot, and not crossing over with rep at all. Just add a whole new gear path people can choose to do.


I dont know about tiering dungeons. Challenging dungeons and LFD just dont go well, i would be ok with Challenge Modes dropping epics on silver and gold though.

But i still think rep and charms should be available from dungeons or scenarios, and of course i would be ok with them disabling the loot.

I am not looking to get rep while i get gear, i am looking for not having to do dailies because i think they are boring. I dont know how people enjoy picking mushroms.
11/30/2012 01:36 PMPosted by Mandulis
It's because they know damn well that if they made dailies truly optional, people would not do them.


so explain why the argent tournament was pretty popular for awhile? none of the rewards were in any way better than things we could get in heroics, mostly vanity items, and took way longer to achieve. ...well besides the city reps of course. But people were still doing them even when it was "old content".

We didn't have to do it, but it was something to do alongside the content we got. These pandaria dailies ARE the content that we have and seemingly the raids and dungeons are the "alongside" stuff to do.


Because they were ONE faction, with 10-15 minutes long for all the daily quests in an epic expansion.
Wasn't The Burning Crusade the most loved Expansion?

We forget that there were about 20 over all factions to grind rep with?

Some of them didn't have dailies, but required you to grind specific dungeons, over and over again, remember needing to be revered to unlock the heroic versions of dungeons?


I remember this, it was much harder than the current system. I don't, however, feel that MoP's system is optimal. Most of my time in game is now spent grinding between my two 90s to obtain rep. Whether its the Tillers so i can farm more of the ridiculously low drop rate motes, or to get better gear so my guild can progress in Raids, its still grinding. I have diverse interests in this game. I would rather PvP in arenas and RBGS. I have yet to start that grind and on top of that I really want to level a couple of my alts on another realm. It can be a bit frustrating.

Deff. not raging here (at least I hope I don't come across that way) I really like the new content and I have time to do all the things I want to in the long run. I just wish it wasn't taking as long.
I dont know about tiering dungeons. Challenging dungeons and LFD just dont go well, i would be ok with Challenge Modes dropping epics on silver and gold though.

But i still think rep and charms should be available from dungeons or scenarios, and of course i would be ok with them disabling the loot.

I am not looking to get rep while i get gear, i am looking for not having to do dailies because i think they are boring. I dont know how people enjoy picking mushroms.


Another alternative would be that you'd have some "daily-offering" factions and some "dungeon rep" factions. Each with their own quartermaster, so people that do one type of content have access to one set, people that do the other have access to the other set, and people that do both (something that should be encouraged) would have access to both.
11/30/2012 01:36 PMPosted by Mandulis
It's because they know damn well that if they made dailies truly optional, people would not do them.


so explain why the argent tournament was pretty popular for awhile? none of the rewards were in any way better than things we could get in heroics, mostly vanity items, and took way longer to achieve. ...well besides the city reps of course. But people were still doing them even when it was "old content".

We didn't have to do it, but it was something to do alongside the content we got. These pandaria dailies ARE the content that we have and seemingly the raids and dungeons are the "alongside" stuff to do.


Argent Tourney worked because 1) They were enjoyable for the most part, 2) people love pets and mounts, 3) They didn't get in the way of progression. You could not do a single tourney daily ever, and still progress your character at the same rate as someone who did do the dailies.

I have 2 90s that are exalted with The Tiller's and this character is fairly close, my monk has master of ways, and is getting close to best friends with all the farm NPCs. Tiller's is fun, I don't mind doing dailies for the Tiller's. If I happen to not do dailies for them, it doesn't affect my ability to get gear. I have two characters that are exalted with cloud serpents, one the dailies aren't awful, they give a fair amount of rep for the time they take, and you can farm eggs (which is how my monk got nearly all of revered-exalted, and how my hunter got a lot of his rep too). Once again, they don't gate progress. If I don't do CS dailies, it doesn't stop me from getting better gear.

I hate Golden Lotus with a burning passion. The dailies suck, there are too many of them and each one gives too little rep. Not only do they gate profession recipes and two different slots of VP gear, they also block progress with 2 additional factions.

Artificial barriers to progression are not fun, they are not engaging, and they are not progressive game elements.
11/30/2012 01:50 PMPosted by Pandemagium
Artificial barriers to progression are not fun, they are not engaging, and they are not progressive game elements.


Okay, got a challenge for you :)

What would be your ideal way to introduce a totally optional, soloable, skill-neutral method of progression to the game? One that can be picked up and done whenever someone feels there's nothing to do.
LOL that's all I can say...LOL.

You poor poor poor people.

"Forced"
"Progression"

You just love to use these words even though you have no idea what they actually mean. Especially now with the new raids in and the ability to upgrade your gear with VP.

Nobody is smashing your face in to do dailies and there are other means to gear your toons.
Yet like everything else that Blizzard adds some type of rewards to...You guys are just going to cry and whine and complain that it's too hard..too boring, too tedious...you're too casual or that it's not fair that someone else did it before you.

Do them or don't do them...it's your choice. Gear up in the LFR. Raid with your guild but please...give up on the..."I'm being forced to do something I don't want to do in order to progress my toon" because it's simply NOT TRUE.

Oh and by the way....The new daily hub is awesome...PvP if you want..so new unique quests in a few different areas...Yep the game is fun right now.
11/30/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Pandemagium
It's because they know damn well that if they made dailies truly optional, people would not do them. Despite all the people claiming that they are the greatest thing since the last greatest thing, the truth is only a fraction of people would bother doing them if there was a choice.


You're certainly right that a lot of people would stop completely, but a lot of people would continue to do them for various reasons.

People who prefer dailies to dungeons will keep doing them. Plenty of people will do them for the cosmetic rewards. Some people would do it just for the achievements. Leave the coins and there's an incentive for everyone else.
11/30/2012 12:52 PMPosted by Amoretti
I don't mind the dailies in MOP so far, but with Blizzard discounting the game 50% just 2 months after it was released, I'm starting to think more people are unhappy than I realize. It's never a good sign when a company discounts that much so soon after a release.


It was Black Friday. Steam runs crazy sales all the time during holiday seasons.

Torchlight 2 is relatively new and it was 50% off too.
Rep runs and loot runs would be shared. Those that entered with rep mode turned on wont be able to loot, and those that didnt would. So there would be MORE people queing not les, those queing for loot and those queing for rep and charms.


I've said a few times I'd find this acceptable. The important thing is that a rep run be a rep run and not "earn rep while I'm doing my gearing run", in order to make people actively decide they want to spend that time grinding rep rather than doing something else.

I still prefer the idea of just tiering dungeons to have more difficult ones that drop better loot, and not crossing over with rep at all. Just add a whole new gear path people can choose to do.


To be honest, if they were to add something like Tabards, I'd rather it be restricted to something outside of LFR. Promote socializing and mindless killing (typically fun) by making the tabards or whatever work in normal/heroic dungeons and/or raids. Not LFD or LFR. Seriously, think about the fact that people you go with, their goal is literally to kill everything. And because it's not a random thing like LFD/LFR, everyone understands the objective, assuming the group was started with that goal anyway. Throw in maybe the rep caps for good measure if needed.
11/30/2012 02:00 PMPosted by Alelsa
Artificial barriers to progression are not fun, they are not engaging, and they are not progressive game elements.


Okay, got a challenge for you :)

What would be your ideal way to introduce a totally optional, soloable, skill-neutral method of progression to the game? One that can be picked up and done whenever someone feels there's nothing to do.


They did this. It's called dailies. Nobody is complaining about the fact that they exist.

People are unhappy because they feel they have to do them even if they aren't looking for an 'optional, soloable, skill-neutral method of progression'. They're not 'required', but they offer the single best rewards in the game for non-raiders.
11/30/2012 01:43 PMPosted by Punt


so explain why the argent tournament was pretty popular for awhile? none of the rewards were in any way better than things we could get in heroics, mostly vanity items, and took way longer to achieve. ...well besides the city reps of course. But people were still doing them even when it was "old content".

We didn't have to do it, but it was something to do alongside the content we got. These pandaria dailies ARE the content that we have and seemingly the raids and dungeons are the "alongside" stuff to do.


Because they were ONE faction, with 10-15 minutes long for all the daily quests in an epic expansion.


It took more than 15 minutes to do the full round of Argent Tourney dailies - especially after unlocking the rest of them at Exalted Champion.

There were days I waited 15 minutes to just kill Chillmaw.
perhaps blizzard should get rid of valor and jp all together, then we can just do normal dungeons, to gear up for heroic dungeons, to gear up for raids...


There is actually between 1 and 3 items, all necks, based on class and available specs to that class just from leveling. And they cost 1250, so for a pally or other 3-spec class, it's 4 weeks. But you don't need 3 different 489 necks. You don't even really need one. I'd much rather spend the VP from those 4 weeks getting bracers and legs, or a chest. But the legs and chest both take just over 2 caps worth of VP, so essentially 3 weeks. Let's not mention helms, which take 3 weeks of valor, and also require two rep grinds, since you can't even start on Shado-Pan until you are revered with GL.

It is incredibly stupid that the only option you have to get valor gear is grinding dailies. And it makes even less sense that you don't have the freedom to choose what order you gain those items in.


Technically, with patience - you don't need to buy any of the necks because I think one of the Exalted quest line rewards is a 489 neck for free.

That does require you to perform the unfortunate grind to exalted. Though - I fail to see how grinding 2 dozen dungeons repeatedly is any different in the end.



Fine. Do all the dailies you want. I don't care what you do, I do not want to do dailies.


... but you want to marginalize the content that I find enjoyable.

You already have dungeons and raids - normal mode raiding already trump the gated daily rep vendors.



The "story" comes from leveling, from doing a dungeon once, from doing dailies once, or reading a book outside of the game. Killing 12 to 36 mogu every day for the last 6 weeks between my 3 90s hasn't changed the amount of "story" I've experienced. Killing 8 mogu every day for the next infinite months isn't going to immerse me deeper into the world of the Golden Lotus.

I get plenty of lolore the first time I level through a zone or hub. After the first time, it's just an extra step in the way of me getting into the content I want to do.


Wars don't stop overnight. The repeatable dailies represent that. The conflict is ongoing.

Is it lame that we kill the same named bosses on different days? Perhaps - but that is no lame than going and killing the same boss in dungeon_x or raid_y every lockout.
They did this. It's called dailies. Nobody is complaining about the fact that they exist.

People are unhappy because they feel they have to do them even if they aren't looking for an 'optional, soloable, skill-neutral method of progression'. They're not 'required', but they offer the single best rewards in the game for non-raiders.


All I can really reply to that is "well, I'm sorry they're unhappy".

I'd actually prefer them not to be unhappy, despite the aggressive attitude I had earlier on when I was just losing my patience with reading "required" and "mandatory" attached to anything that's actually useful for anyone to progress their character. I just don't see any way that can happen. I can really only see two options - Everything stays as it is now, and they get unhappy, or Blizz switch back to a raider-focused game model and end up driving away casual players and having people unsub as soon as they're "finished" with content. I'd love there to be a third, but I'm at a loss for what that third option actually could be. As soon as you introduce a method for people to have something to do and attach a reward worth actually doing it for, it appears a portion of the playerbase will see it as "mandatory". I'm interested in finding common ground, but so far I don't see any.
11/30/2012 02:05 PMPosted by Eviloven
To be honest, if they were to add something like Tabards, I'd rather it be restricted to something outside of LFR. Promote socializing and mindless killing (typically fun) by making the tabards or whatever work in normal/heroic dungeons and/or raids. Not LFD or LFR. Seriously, think about the fact that people you go with, their goal is literally to kill everything. And because it's not a random thing like LFD/LFR, everyone understands the objective, assuming the group was started with that goal anyway. Throw in maybe the rep caps for good measure if needed.


If you are able to get a group to do that, then you most likely have access to guild raiding, and have no need for valor gear. I'm tired of "not in a raiding guild? Oh well, tough luck." That is unacceptable. The whole reason LFD and LFR exist is to make it more convenient to get things done in game that you want to do.

Okay, got a challenge for you :)

What would be your ideal way to introduce a totally optional, soloable, skill-neutral method of progression to the game? One that can be picked up and done whenever someone feels there's nothing to do.


I'm not a game designer. I'm not being paid a salary by Blizzard. I'm not doing their work for free. If they just had dailies and dungeons as options, and possibly made scenarios a little more rewarding (new 476 loots are a step in the right direction, but still random and not reliable) it would be fine. There doesn't need to be some super awesome amazing soloable, skill-neutral progression added, we already have that, it's called random dungeon finder. All it's lacking is the progression.

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