Nightstalker and Versatility

Rogue
12/05/2012 11:46 AMPosted by Fierydemise
I use both Nightstalker and Versatility for PvE. I like Nightstalker for the speed boost while doing dailies. Versatility is nice for target switching.

How often do you actually need a redirect more then once a minute or since both your specs appear to be combat more then once every 30 seconds?

The same could be asked of the other two options. Now that I've gotten used to having Versatility, I use it all the time. I have Redirect marco'd to my target button. It's a nice convince to have. :)
12/05/2012 04:12 PMPosted by Tulok
The same could be asked of the other two options.


Not really...

ST can be used every time you are out of range, and you are out of range pretty frequently (if you are snared rooted CCed etc)

Anticipation works anytime you are over 5cp. And outside of Combat that will at least save 1 or 2 cp each time (through Mut or HAT procs). It always gets most use out of burst.

Versatility....is ONLY useful if you redirect more than once a min (or less if combat). You dont LOSE the ability to redirect if you dont take it....and in PvP I scarcely find the need or desire to redirect more than once a minute.

Heck with Anticipation you can pseudo redirect as well.
I guess I'm the oddball. I use nightstalker and shuriken toss, but that's just a personal preference.
I hear Timat Is a big fan of versatility.

>.>
I hear Timat Is a big fan of versatility.

>.>


Lies and slander!
12/03/2012 11:53 PMPosted by Desukà
Versatility is a pretty good alternative to Anticipation


pffffffftbwahahahahahahahaha
I did, in fact, take both. They make perfect sense if you're mostly doing dailies or farming out in the world.
I use nightstalker. I'm a glutton for speed increases. I've used versatility to help offset haste problems earlier on for doing dailies an such. Now, not so much. Also, since I am usually doing dailies while waiting for a queue, switching back and forth has gotten to be a pita. So I generally just suck it up and lose the combo points like a good rogue.
I took Nightstalker and Burst of Speed.

And I like them.


Not seeing how Anticipation helps me when I have to switch between a ton of different targets within a minute.

If you are referring to the fact that they both help you avoid wasting combo points.... that's the point. They both achieve the same goal but in different ways and for different situations. That's what makes them good choices.

1. Build 5 CP on a target and then build 5 more CP in anticipation charges
2. Use those 5 CP for Recup or SnD
3. Switch to new target and build 1 CP on them and spend said CP with Eviscerate/Envenom/Rupture
4. Your anticipation charges should refill you CPs on the new target to 5 CPs

A pseudo Redirect but still does the job.

I believe Timat has pointed that out since the early beta.


Are you actually finding use out of this? I find that extremely hard to believe. Most times this won't line up with times you need to refresh SnD, especially if you play Assassination where you don't even use cps to directly put up SnD.

I mean what you describe sounds like you have to carefully line things up to make it happen, when the times that Versatility would be beneficial is when there is a lot of hectic running around such as Heroic Will of the Emperor, where you change dps targets from Rage to Rage to Strength etc in very quick succession. The goal is to drop as much damage as possible and leaving combo points behind on your last target is a waste.

You MIGHT have times in PvP to help put up Recuperate, I guess. But even then you are wasting energy by doing a finisher with 1 cp and likely not getting the energy back for it to get your anticipation charges back quickly. If, on the other hand, you wait till you have 5 cps again before using a finisher to get your anticipation charges back.... Well, the point of redirect is so you can get some quick damage or a stun going on a target immediately after switching to them. This technique seems rather useless.

And thus a rather irrelevant point to bring up to make Versatility look bad.

Honestly the talent just makes sense in relation to Anticipation.


Not seeing how Anticipation helps me when I have to switch between a ton of different targets within a minute.

If you are referring to the fact that they both help you avoid wasting combo points.... that's the point. They both achieve the same goal but in different ways and for different situations. That's what makes them good choices.

1. Build 5 CP on a target and then build 5 more CP in anticipation charges
2. Use those 5 CP for Recup or SnD
3. Switch to new target and build 1 CP on them and spend said CP with Eviscerate/Envenom/Rupture
4. Your anticipation charges should refill you CPs on the new target to 5 CPs

A pseudo Redirect but still does the job.

I believe Timat has pointed that out since the early beta.


You waste so much energy doing this, in a raid you would gimp your DPS.
Are you actually finding use out of this? I find that extremely hard to believe. Most times this won't line up with times you need to refresh SnD, especially if you play Assassination where you don't even use cps to directly put up SnD.


It would be less effecient than just hitting redirect...but not by much.

With Anticipation you get the full effect of anticipation and about half the effect of versatility.

12/07/2012 12:31 AMPosted by Desukà
Honestly the talent just makes sense in relation to Anticipation.


Blue (thankfully) disagrees
12/07/2012 03:16 AMPosted by Unskillable
You waste so much energy doing this, in a raid you would gimp your DPS.


Are you actually finding use out of this? I find that extremely hard to believe. Most times this won't line up with times you need to refresh SnD, especially if you play Assassination where you don't even use cps to directly put up SnD.

Mind you we're talking about Anticipation. It does the job of Anticipation AND half of Anticipation.

You MIGHT have times in PvP to help put up Recuperate, I guess. But even then you are wasting energy by doing a finisher with 1 cp and likely not getting the energy back for it to get your anticipation charges back quickly. If, on the other hand, you wait till you have 5 cps again before using a finisher to get your anticipation charges back.... Well, the point of redirect is so you can get some quick damage or a stun going on a target immediately after switching to them. This technique seems rather useless.

Do you not pool CP and energy in PvP? You never blindly smash buttons and put your energy bar and CP at 0.

Versatility is bad, it gets worse when it becomes a choice between ST and Anticipation. I never find myself to Redirect more than a min during PvP. The only time I do is lining up a 5 CP kidney on a Healer after chains of other CCs.
Nightstalker's good for leveling and speedrunning dungeons.
Versatility isn't good ever.
Nightstalkers !@#$ compared to sub or sf. Versatility isn't to bad but you need shuriken toss :p
How much extra damage are you really going to get on a boss out of that one single free opener?

I'd keep Nightstalker even if it didn't have the bonus damage. The speed is too good to pass up.
12/07/2012 03:12 PMPosted by Zìsh
The speed is too good to pass up.


Huh.....?

its only 25%....and only in stealth.....
How much extra damage are you really going to get on a boss out of that one single free opener?

I'd keep Nightstalker even if it didn't have the bonus damage. The speed is too good to pass up.

Funny that SF is the best choice for both Mut and Combat in PvE. Even Sub uses subterfuge for PvE.
Problem with nightstalker is the 25% damage buff doesn't do anything if u open with cheap shot, barely does anything if you open with garrote since garrote damage is god awful anyway and about the only time i open with ambush is either as combat PvE (focus is still better) OR if some one is at low hp eating in BG.

Nightstalker would be much more attractive this way:

Increases speed by 10% and an additional 10% while stealthed. Increases the damage your next special attack made within 5 seconds of breaking stealth by 50%.
I dislike the first tier in general. Shadow focus is a definitive increase and the 2 free CP makes ramp-up a lot faster than if you just ran in and engaged, to the point where its even worth using as combat. In cataclysm, combat was the spec to be if you didn't want to deal with that.

Nightstalker lets you engage faster (138% movement speed), but without shadow focus theres no longer a point since opener damage is so meaningless now for all 3 specs.

I look forward to playing with shuriken toss though; Back when i was testing it on PTR, it was hitting twice as hard as melee combo builders for half the cost if you are further than 10 yards away.

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