-----Patch 6.0----- DK Wish List :D

Death Knight
@Torhots

Eh, i guess you can put it that way then. :(

It's like you drew an anime character but people throw eggs and tomatoes at you because it's really bad. Same logic?
@Torhots

Eh, i guess you can put it that way then. :(

It's like you drew an anime character but people throw eggs and tomatoes at you because it's really bad. Same logic?


Not quite.

More like the OP was trying to come up with ways to counter both melee and ranged in a long list of changes. None of it really offering things it would cost to gain these advantages and or a risk versus reward and instead just rewards. At least from a design standpoint it's not really reasonable. While they may not have been met friendly with it, this is also not the only thread on the subject really. Later on you came in and to a point used a high horse stance while taking shots at others. In particular you singled one player out exclusively. I called you out on it just so that it's possible you and your opponent could move on from the subject but it seems of late you're playing the last word game at the moment.

Really I've been trying to keep it on point to the OP's posts and in particular why I responded to it in the first place.

Now for a better example. If I made a thread giving a bunch of buffs I'd want for my Mistweaver Monk I am sure many monks would support it or say I'd be asking for too much. It's also highly likely that other healers would be combative on the topic because if the devs actually listened to said suggestion it could get the point where the other healing classes would be obsolete.
@Torhots

Eh, i guess you can put it that way then. :(

It's like you drew an anime character but people throw eggs and tomatoes at you because it's really bad. Same logic?


Not quite.

More like the OP was trying to come up with ways to counter both melee and ranged in a long list of changes. None of it really offering things it would cost to gain these advantages and or a risk versus reward and instead just rewards. At least from a design standpoint it's not really reasonable. While they may not have been met friendly with it, this is also not the only thread on the subject really. Later on you came in and to a point used a high horse stance while taking shots at others. In particular you singled one player out exclusively. I called you out on it just so that it's possible you and your opponent could move on from the subject but it seems of late you're playing the last word game at the moment.

Really I've been trying to keep it on point to the OP's posts and in particular why I responded to it in the first place.

Now for a better example. If I made a thread giving a bunch of buffs I'd want for my Mistweaver Monk I am sure many monks would support it or say I'd be asking for too much. It's also highly likely that other healers would be combative on the topic because if the devs actually listened to said suggestion it could get the point where the other healing classes would be obsolete.


Oh, I see. Thank you for clarification. :)
Posting on my dk so it doesn't appear like I'm outright trolling.

An example is the dark sim to copy non mana using opponents. The death knight thing for a good while was more about being anti caster. A few of the changes the OP wants is about also countering melee. I'll admit my first post had many absolutes for the OP like things Blizzard would never do. So for example lets say they'd let us use shields. Seems nice in theory for things like a melee attacking you. But then they'd have to change our active mitigation or even get rid of it. This is highly unlikely and to a point unreasonable considering Blizzard likes the idea of tanks having to control their survival.

Ghost Crawler has posted in the past about liking how Blood DK's function and to a point Brewmasters were also designed with some built in mitigation control. Also both Monk and DK have to choose at times between using their resources for survival, utility or dps and I get the feeling that if they had their way the other 3 tanks would be more like the Blood and Brewmasters.

Now while some would look at the changes the OP wants and would think more about how it benefits non tank specs but as soon as I see changes for defense and so on it also has to be thought about what it means for PvE before PvP. Most only care about their little world though so if you're frost you praise a buff to things like IBF meanwhile I start wondering what they'd have to nerf to appease a much smaller amount of the player base that PvP's.
The only thing I wish for is Unholy having bone shield again. Other then that i'd be completely content
The only thing I wish for is Unholy having bone shield again. Other then that i'd be completely content


We never really did get this mechanic fixed. Think giving this back to unholy would level out the mountain between unholy and frost performance, while also bringing the new tier gear set bonuses back into line with eachother?

Kinda merging a few threads with this one...

Wish list - Reinstate unholy bone shield. Any other thoughts on this?
12/01/2012 02:45 AMPosted by Zekneghine
The only thing I wish for is Unholy having bone shield again. Other then that i'd be completely content


We never really did get this mechanic fixed. Think giving this back to unholy would level out the mountain between unholy and frost performance, while also bringing the new tier gear set bonuses back into line with eachother?

Kinda merging a few threads with this one...

Wish list - Reinstate unholy bone shield. Any other thoughts on this?


Boneshield no longer has the "increase damage done" part tied to it. So at least damage wise there is no benefit to having it. It's only a damage reduction now for blood. So giving it to you is only defensive.
12/01/2012 02:45 AMPosted by Zekneghine
The only thing I wish for is Unholy having bone shield again. Other then that i'd be completely content


We never really did get this mechanic fixed. Think giving this back to unholy would level out the mountain between unholy and frost performance, while also bringing the new tier gear set bonuses back into line with eachother?

Kinda merging a few threads with this one...

Wish list - Reinstate unholy bone shield. Any other thoughts on this?


In all honesty I'd give up damage just for more defensive abilities, or maybe some better CC. Dk's are garbage sadly. I refuse to stop playing mine though.
Just a thought but how about buffing Unholy Blight in a way that reduces the accuracy of players/pets around the DK. I feel this would be a great and balanced way to give DK's the survivability that we need against melee. It makes sense considering the tooltip clearly states that you are surrounded by insects that could potentially block the field of vision.
I would just be happy if they made HOW last longer then 5 &^%$ mins......Yeah i use it in my rotation, but it still annoys me to no end that other buffs last 60 mins. I want my HOW to last 60 mins as well....Please.....ill take 30 mins if it would help......ok 25 thats my final offer.
Wow this went on pretty far ... I gave up on it at first but now >.>

In general I just wish that Frost was more ranged/bursty than it is and that the class in general had better survival against ranged burst classes in pvp. Not just for DKs but for all melee classes. It's no fun being kited by some moron face rolling the keyboard while you have to pop several buttons on a long cooldown to survive :/

Everyone else should feel free to post, just ignore fail trolls like Deathquio and respond to nice people like Uzoko :)
Wow this went on pretty far ... I gave up on it at first but now >.>

In general I just wish that Frost was more ranged/bursty than it is and that the class in general had better survival against ranged burst classes in pvp. Not just for DKs but for all melee classes. It's no fun being kited by some moron face rolling the keyboard while you have to pop several buttons on a long cooldown to survive :/

Everyone else should feel free to post, just ignore fail trolls like Deathquio and respond to nice people like Uzoko :)


Lol, anyone that thinks your ideas are bad is a fail troll. Good work. Uzuko has probably the worst ideas of anyone on these forums, so his support isn't really a ringing endorsement, bro.
11/28/2012 04:48 PMPosted by Evolutionary
No wonder this class gets no love


Excuse me. You are a DK. Play a shaman and then rethink this statement. You know nothing of "no love" from blizzard
Just having a bit of fun (calm down)
I like the idea of Army of the undead acting like the pally 5min cd that changes per spec. Where you summon them first and have a separate cd for each spec

Frost: Insert name here. Basically kill all of your minions and drain their strength for your own (maybe transform into a lich? 15-20 secs)
I'm torn between unholy and blood being the same graphic.
Unholy: Empower Minions-all minions become empowered for 15-20 secs increasing their dmg and size by ***%
or
"insert name here"- basically you merge with your minions becoming a bigger version of your transformed pet increasing your dmg by ***% (couldnt be too big obv)

Blood: Basically like the second unholy one where you would maybe turn into a abom? dmg reduction or +healing 10secs?
11/29/2012 01:06 PMPosted by Uzuko
Mmmkay, since i feel like i'm the most nice Dk around these forums. Let me just, detrollify things for you OP.


11/29/2012 03:28 PMPosted by Uzuko
Are you illiteral or something? Hence I don't feel like i have to be nice about someone who doesn't either.


So...you're the nice DK are you? No wonder we have such a bad stereotype...

11/29/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Deathquoi
Most ideas offered on these forums are terrible, including all of yours that I've seen.


I love people like you Deathquoi. You know why? Because you present a challenge. Your negativity is my motivation. Mark my words, I WILL come up with an idea you like.

12/02/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Grimjaow
In all honesty I'd give up damage just for more defensive abilities, or maybe some better CC. Dk's are garbage sadly. I refuse to stop playing mine though.


Well, aren't you a rare specimen, someone who realizes DK's are in a weak spot yet still has pride in being one. To top it all off, your season 12 elite gear suggests you know what you're talking about. I would love to hear your ideas about how to make balanced improvements to the class.

Now, my responses to Evolutionary's suggestions:

1) Dark Simulacrum: I disagree with your take on this. DK's are supposed to be and Anti-caster class, and this is an anti-caster ability. Also, I would like this ability to be more of a steal than a copy, having DS negate and absorb the caster's spell.

2) Desecrated Ground: Disagree that it should have a bigger range, but I do think it should follow the Death Knight around. And for added utility, any ally standing with Desecrated ground would be immune to loss of control as well.

3)Soul Reaper: It's fine as is. If it were any more powerful, Blizzard would have to compensate by nerfing the class elsewhere. That said, I would like to see the haste buff it grants changed to a heal.

4) Let us use shields: Won't happen, shouldn't happen. It's one of the characteristics that separates us from Paladins. Would like to see DK's get a passive armor bonus though.

5) Chains of Ice: This and chillblains are fine as is.

6) Death Siphon: Agreed that this needs to be reworked. Right now, Death Pact is the only choice on the tier worth taking. I think making Death Siphon a channeled ability on a 15 sec cooldown is a good idea. Make it a 3 sec channel that absorbs 5% health per sec.

7)Shadow Infusion/Dark Transformation: One of Unholy's big issues is it has an absurdly long ramp-up time, and this is a big contributor to that, but increasing their durations won't help. Here's my idea: Have Shadow Infusion work in a similar way to a monk's roll. The ghoul starts with 5 charges, letting you get out you Undead Monstrosity instantly. Once Dark Transfomation expires, your ghoul slowly regenerates these charges, while Death Coil grants your ghoul additional charges.

8) RP cost of Outbreak: This should only be lowered to 35, if it's lowered at all. The only reason to take Glyph of Outbreak in the first place is if you find yourself with excess runic power. Lowering its cost would defeat the purpose to a degree.

9) Letting Control Undead work on other ghouls: this would ultimately create more problems than it solves. It would be too easy for a frost or blood DK to counter an unholy, making them worthless in any PvP situation.

10) Lichborne talent and Will of the Forsaken share the same icon button: Can't you solve this yourself? Just make a macro and change the icon that's used. It's not hard...

11) A fear based ability: Fears and CC's are running rampant as is, and you want to add another one? Imo, you're looking at this the wrong way. Instead of giving DK's a CC, give them more CC immunity. Here's one idea I have in mind, a change to the current Lichborne. Instead of an activated cooldown, it becomes a passive. While the Death Knight is below 35% health, he becomes immune to Fear, Sleep, or Charm effects.

I could go on, but this post is getting too long as is, so I'll just leave it at this.


Well, aren't you a rare specimen, someone who realizes DK's are in a weak spot yet still has pride in being one. To top it all off, your season 12 elite gear suggests you know what you're talking about. I would love to hear your ideas about how to make balanced improvements to the class.


Well I now that i'm gemming the most resil you can have after the t2 pvp power patch it seems a lot more viable although I'd like Unholy to be more viable but frost just does unreal burst and damage right now lol. Unholy is still viable it's just meh at the moment against some certain comps it's always been fun but I really like the ideas you got going on for death knight suggestions.
Some really high hope that I have for upcoming patches is to see a revamp on how death knight's work because we really have outdated mechanics, If anything I'd get rid of Purgatory, and replace it with Bone Shield making it a buff like Lightning shield for shamans. I think it'd be a nice change considering every death knight i know that is at a high end level don't use it. I'm not sure about PVE but I have heard that it's not worth taking over Lichborne self heals or AMZ for a raid wall.
I also think Death Siphon and Conversion really need to be revamped because this game is so bursty. I loved the idea of both abilities in Cataclysm when I heard about theme but it just doesn't seem like it's worth taking over an "OH !@#$ heal" aka Death Pact.
Death's Advance is right where it needs to be in my opinion but I think if it worked as a freedom it would be taken more by Frost death knights. Using it as Unholy is really nice right now over Chilblains in my opinion. The level 90 talent tier right now is in a good spot besides Remorseless Winter, and why I say this is because every class has a way out of it. Literally :c

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