LFR- Loot system - The good, The bad, The fix

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
12/04/2012 09:41 PMPosted by Sarosha
An understanding guild might gear you up.


If you're perpetually having people gear you up, it's called being carried.
12/04/2012 09:43 PMPosted by Postonforums
An understanding guild might gear you up.


If you're perpetually having people gear you up, it's called being carried.


The lucky players gets to self gear, the unlucky player has to work 3 times harder just to come in behind the lucky player which cuts opportunities to change the luck off at the knees.

It really shouldnt be a major issue, the truly unlucky player who gets nothing shouldnt be more than 1 in 10000 or something like that, and even for blizzard thats a rounding error in players.

Most players its just a matter of getting discouraged from bad streaks rather than truly bad luck and it will work itself out over time.

But its an interesting thought excercise while Im bored waiting for LFR queue to pop... I hope I get a sha touched weapon :)
12/04/2012 09:43 PMPosted by Postonforums
An understanding guild might gear you up.


If you're perpetually having people gear you up, it's called being carried.


one more thing tank queue's are very long tonight.

You just proved the point, you assume the person who gets unlucky and has a 468 ilevel didnt work as hard as the person who gets lucky ans has a 480 ilevel, even though its possible they both worked as hard.

and if you made a pug and didnt know either of them, you would take the 480 both for the higher ilevel and the assumption that they worked harder to get it.

your assuming the less geared person is looking for a carry....

I do think for the most part the LFR this expansion has been very good, even with the queue and garalon issues, but its not perfect...
12/04/2012 10:27 PMPosted by Sarosha
You just proved the point, you assume the person who gets unlucky and has a 468 ilevel didnt work as hard as the person who gets lucky ans has a 480 ilevel, even though its possible they both worked as hard.


You didn't, your rep sucks, you're arguing against VP gear, you're assuming 1000 vp is hard, and you're all around being lazy.
12/04/2012 10:27 PMPosted by Sarosha
and if you made a pug and didnt know either of them, you would take the 480 both for the higher ilevel and the assumption that they worked harder to get it.


I'd care more about experience. When I put my pug together to test my stream/try out my kitty (that's what she said) the exact message I spammed was "LFM MSV. Have experience." I'd much rather have a person with real raid experience and a lower ilvl than an LFR hero with a full set who tries to tank SG together and doesn't understand the purpose of a pull timer.
12/04/2012 10:29 PMPosted by Postonforums
You just proved the point, you assume the person who gets unlucky and has a 468 ilevel didnt work as hard as the person who gets lucky ans has a 480 ilevel, even though its possible they both worked as hard.


You didn't, your rep sucks, you're arguing against VP gear, you're assuming 1000 vp is hard, and you're all around being lazy.


I said 1000 valor was hard 3 months ago when the test center was reporting completely wrong numbers. It was reporting 30 valor for heroics instead of 60, it was a bug in the code, it wasnt correctly applying the daily bonus, and its been buffed since. it was beta and it was bugged.

1000 valor is not hard, but it is limited, you only have so much to spend and you need to spend it very carefully.

once you spend valor its not coming back.
and if you made a pug and didnt know either of them, you would take the 480 both for the higher ilevel and the assumption that they worked harder to get it.


I'd care more about experience. When I put my pug together to test my stream/try out my kitty (that's what she said) the exact message I spammed was "LFM MSV. Have experience." I'd much rather have a person with real raid experience and a lower ilvl than an LFR hero with a full set who tries to tank SG together and doesn't understand the purpose of a pull timer.


Yes but it would be in general harder for the less geared person to even get that experience.

Thats exactly how I got into a pug, I had the highest Ilevel of the people calling, once I got the experience on Feng, I was able to leverage that into another pug, now I have experience all the way to elegon.

To some extant you make your own luck, but to other extant luck begets more luck.

Just out of curiousity, what loot system does your guild use, roll, Dkp or a variant or loot council?
What I am having a hard time with, is that there is zero visibility into what is going on. I don't see my roll. I want to see my roll and until I actually see my roll against this 'miraculous' piece of !@#$ system Blizzard developers wasted their time on, and now mine, I refuse to believe that it is anything other than rewarding straight gold bags. I find it very hard to believe that I am unable to roll over an 85, yet the gold bags week in and out are saying just that. I think it's garbage and without transparency, I think the system is a lie.


So, tell me, what does seeing "you rolled a 1 and lost" verus "You lost" do? Blizzard isn't using some conspiracy theory, there's statistic gathering websites that track people's luck, and they're all pointing to ~15% with pretty high sample size, if you get more than 2 items a week, you're lucky, less, you're unlucky, 2? average.
12/04/2012 09:40 PMPosted by Postonforums
I hate the people who always wait on gear, are perpetually undergeared and whining as a result of "saving" stuff

Last time I made a DKP system (in BC), I put in a 5% reduction applied to your current total every week.

Wealth taxes are a great way to punish people for hoarding.
12/05/2012 12:12 AMPosted by Maladomini
What I am having a hard time with, is that there is zero visibility into what is going on. I don't see my roll. I want to see my roll and until I actually see my roll against this 'miraculous' piece of !@#$ system Blizzard developers wasted their time on, and now mine, I refuse to believe that it is anything other than rewarding straight gold bags. I find it very hard to believe that I am unable to roll over an 85, yet the gold bags week in and out are saying just that. I think it's garbage and without transparency, I think the system is a lie.

For your sake I hope your irrational paranoia is confined to WoW.
Last time I made a DKP system (in BC), I put in a 5% reduction applied to your current total every week.

Wealth taxes are a great way to punish people for hoarding.


Wasnt even that in terms of raid gear, it's the people who don't replace their leveling greens with blues or valor pieces, because "the gear will drop"
12/05/2012 12:16 AMPosted by Postonforums
So, tell me, what does seeing "you rolled a 1 and lost" verus "You lost" do? Blizzard isn't using some conspiracy theory, there's statistic gathering websites that track people's luck, and they're all pointing to ~15% with pretty high sample size, if you get more than 2 items a week, you're lucky, less, you're unlucky, 2? average.


Actually, Blizzard themselves stated that their system isn't "completely" random. They just didn't tell us how it isn't. I know it's hard but please make sure you know what you're talking about before posting.
Yes but it would be in general harder for the less geared person to even get that experience.

Thats exactly how I got into a pug, I had the highest Ilevel of the people calling, once I got the experience on Feng, I was able to leverage that into another pug, now I have experience all the way to elegon.


Or they could be an alt from a good guild (this is my highest preference).

12/04/2012 10:47 PMPosted by Sarosha
Just out of curiousity, what loot system does your guild use, roll, Dkp or a variant or loot council?


We use an officer run loot council.

What I am having a hard time with, is that there is zero visibility into what is going on. I don't see my roll. I want to see my roll and until I actually see my roll against this 'miraculous' piece of !@#$ system Blizzard developers wasted their time on, and now mine, I refuse to believe that it is anything other than rewarding straight gold bags. I find it very hard to believe that I am unable to roll over an 85, yet the gold bags week in and out are saying just that. I think it's garbage and without transparency, I think the system is a lie.


That doesn't make the system flawed, it makes you an idiot.

Actually, Blizzard themselves stated that their system isn't "completely" random. They just didn't tell us how it isn't. I know it's hard but please make sure you know what you're talking about before posting.


It's as random as a computer can possibly be and they did say how. It uses a variation of a time stamp seed.
12/05/2012 02:08 AMPosted by Greyhide
So, tell me, what does seeing "you rolled a 1 and lost" verus "You lost" do? Blizzard isn't using some conspiracy theory, there's statistic gathering websites that track people's luck, and they're all pointing to ~15% with pretty high sample size, if you get more than 2 items a week, you're lucky, less, you're unlucky, 2? average.


Actually, Blizzard themselves stated that their system isn't "completely" random. They just didn't tell us how it isn't. I know it's hard but please make sure you know what you're talking about before posting.


At least he cited some data. Which is more than you did.
12/04/2012 09:41 PMPosted by Sarosha
if your trying to raid t


VP gear is still good for people raiding.
Yes but it would be in general harder for the less geared person to even get that experience.

Thats exactly how I got into a pug, I had the highest Ilevel of the people calling, once I got the experience on Feng, I was able to leverage that into another pug, now I have experience all the way to elegon.


Or they could be an alt from a good guild (this is my highest preference).

12/04/2012 10:47 PMPosted by Sarosha
Just out of curiousity, what loot system does your guild use, roll, Dkp or a variant or loot council?


We use an officer run loot council.

What I am having a hard time with, is that there is zero visibility into what is going on. I don't see my roll. I want to see my roll and until I actually see my roll against this 'miraculous' piece of !@#$ system Blizzard developers wasted their time on, and now mine, I refuse to believe that it is anything other than rewarding straight gold bags. I find it very hard to believe that I am unable to roll over an 85, yet the gold bags week in and out are saying just that. I think it's garbage and without transparency, I think the system is a lie.


That doesn't make the system flawed, it makes you an idiot.

Actually, Blizzard themselves stated that their system isn't "completely" random. They just didn't tell us how it isn't. I know it's hard but please make sure you know what you're talking about before posting.


It's as random as a computer can possibly be and they did say how. It uses a variation of a time stamp seed.


See this is why.

A loot council system more than any other makes sure no one goes too long without something, it probably the least random approach.

A dependency on a completly random system is frustrating.
if your trying to raid t


VP gear is still good for people raiding.


Didnt say it wasnt, but once you spend it its gone.

You cant buy the gear and also upgrade it.

Ive had good luck with Sha and LFr or at least average, go look on the general forum, there is a poster there who ran almost as many Sha and LFR as me and doesnt have a single piece of Sha or LFR loot, but they have more valor gear and crafted gear.

But I have about 11 ilevels over them.

A pure random system can have issues.
12/05/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Sarosha
See this is why.


This is why what?

12/05/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Sarosha
A loot council system more than any other makes sure no one goes too long without something, it probably the least random approach.


It makes sure you earn your loot and allows us to keep our core at around the same spot. There is still the RNG aspect of the loot dropping. With the introduction as coins it has become even more superior of a loot system for 25 man raiding.

12/05/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Sarosha
A dependency on a completly random system is frustrating.


Our alt groups have always been random rolls. It's really not that bad, it's only loot.

12/05/2012 07:56 AMPosted by Sarosha
You cant buy the gear and also upgrade it.


What's better is going to depend on the situation. In the case of your chest you would be better off buying the valor one as this will net you more than an 8 ilvl increase and its not like you have any BiS pieces to upgrade anyways.

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