fixing hunter pve: cleave and movement issues

Hunter
first is hunter cleave, it virtually does not exist, so here is my suggestion, which will also bring back some aspect choice and decision making

aspect of the hydra
-when the hunter attacks a target he will also hit the same target that his pet is attacking with a dublicate of his single target attacks (auto shot and abilities) but if he and his pet are attacking (or trying to attack) the same target there will be no dublicated attacks [the cost of this aspect pve wise is 15% RaP and iron hawk mintegation if talentd]

then give BM the passive

hybra's venom
-abilities that deal damage to a target due to AotHydra benefit from mastery (this is because kill comman would not work with AotHydra, to make this aspect more attractive to the pet spec as well)

with the cost of hawk this is a dps loss for single target, but gives hunters cleave, which they SEVERLY lack atm, and lose in pve viability because of it, this change would also give some interesting benefit to pvp

now for movement, hunters, should not deal 100% dps on the move, so lets take a look at sniper training revamped options

option 1
the old version, a plain damage increase for standing still long enough (have it passively grant like 5% pvp power to help us keep pvp damage without this buff but when this buff is gained, the pvp power bonus is cancled [the pvp power should be slightly weaker than having this buff active for pvp])

option 2
-when stationary for 3 seconds you gain 1 stack of sniper training, up to 3, casting a steady shot or cobra shot while moving will consume 1 stack (they would not be castable while moving without this) and you instantly gain 1 stack when struck by an enemy player (8 second ICD, this is for pvp movement, the ICD can be adjusted for improvmeent / weakening of hunter pvp [lolz when will hunter pvp need a nerf outside of gimic bugged design, probably never])
These look like good suggestions, hope the dev's gave this thread a peek.
So from what I understand, you want to give hunters a Havoc with 100% up-time and godly control?
Or we get double damage serpent sting apparently
I like the idea behind using a new Aspect to solve our cleave problem, and I think Hydra is a terrific name for it! That said, I feel your current suggestion would be too cumbersome for most players. It'd be better if autoshots and special attacks cleaved to 1 other target without the need of pet interaction.

Another problem I see is the aspect would greatly favor SV & MM over BM. Pet attacks and Kill Command should also hit the additional target. If 15% RAP loss isn't enough (which I imagine it wouldn't be) perhaps Blizzard could make attacks only do 60% damage to the secondary target or maybe limit focus generation by 15% in that aspect. I much prefer the former.

Lastly, every time I see the words "Sniper Training" in a post, I cringe. I've never seen a Sniper Training suggestion I've liked thus far. Just make Cobra/Steady do slightly less damage when used on the move. Blizzard has already shown they have tech for this with Kil'jaeden's Cunning. It would just be a small % damage loss on whatever Cobra/Steady you moved during. No buffs, no extra unnecessary mechanic to keep track of, and it can still reward players who use more instant shots on the move while not crippling the damage of PvE'ers who aren't min/max'ers or PvP'ers.
I like the idea behind using a new Aspect to solve our cleave problem, and I think Hydra is a terrific name for it! That said, I feel your current suggestion would be too cumbersome for most players. It'd be better if autoshots and special attacks cleaved to 1 other target without the need of pet interaction.

Another problem I see is the aspect would greatly favor SV & MM over BM. Pet attacks and Kill Command should also hit the additional target. If 15% RAP loss isn't enough (which I imagine it wouldn't be) perhaps Blizzard could make attacks only do 60% damage to the secondary target or maybe limit focus generation by 15% in that aspect. I much prefer the former.

Lastly, every time I see the words "Sniper Training" in a post, I cringe. I've never seen a Sniper Training suggestion I've liked thus far. Just make Cobra/Steady do slightly less damage when used on the move. Blizzard has already shown they have tech for this with Kil'jaeden's Cunning. It would just be a small % damage loss on whatever Cobra/Steady you moved during. No buffs, no extra unnecessary mechanic to keep track of, and it can still reward players who use more instant shots on the move while not crippling the damage of PvE'ers who aren't min/max'ers or PvP'ers.


remember, this is an idea for it, the pet could easily be replaced with hunters mark, and make glyph of marked for death not work in this aspect, and of course damage output would need to be adjusted for the aspect, this is a base idea (and i put in BM esclusive hydras venom passive to help with that issue because even if it goes off hunters mark, kill command is damage from the pet, not the hunter and would not proc on this aspect, unless the aspect was made to do so of course)

as for sniper training, there is a lot of solutions to this, i gave 2

another solution would be to slightly reduce the normal return of focus on SS/ CS and make sniper training cause those abilities to to gain more focus returned when using them when stationary, then add into it a variation of the old AotFox passive to benefit pvp focus regen a bit because we will be a lot more mobile in pvp (possably make it proc of any direct attack taken by a player with a 2 sec ICD, instead of just melee)

point being, there are solutions that can be used that will be balanced to fix hunter pve issues, thet could also benefit hunter pvp without being overpowered, because if AotHydra goes off pet, it can be CCed to prevent its benefit (or killed) and if it goes off of hunters mark, HM can be dispelled, theh unter can still be CCed, and he willl ikely have less damage mintegation while trying to split damage people

and yes, i dont much like the idea of sniper training, but hunters do need some form of mobility dps balance done, or will need it, if our pve dps is ever made properly on par with other classes

12/01/2012 10:14 PMPosted by Sfxknight
So from what I understand, you want to give hunters a Havoc with 100% up-time and godly control?


except warlocks already have good cleave even without this, with multi dotting, hunters cleave is nonexistant outside of serpent sting which damage

12/01/2012 10:23 PMPosted by Thefong
Or we get double damage serpent sting apparently


even being doubled, is pathetic

and remember that this aspect would come at the cost of single target dps and survivability in most pve and pvp situations and as i said before this is a base idea, so even with the 15% AP lost it would likelly have some other form of damage reduction, so it would not have a CD, but would be less effective than havoc
1 more day till my sub dies
12/03/2012 08:28 PMPosted by Alfavhunter
1 more day till my sub dies


Can't wait.
12/03/2012 08:48 PMPosted by Magnolia
1 more day till my sub dies


Can't wait.


hateful and trolling, but a bump none the less, so ty
12/02/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Alfavhunter
even being doubled, is pathetic


This is false. The new buff is ridiculous, my dps has gone up at least 5-10k overnight just due to the increased damage from Serpent Sting and my new found love of hunter multidotting. Learn to use your abilities to help you do more damage, we're one of the best AOE classes in the game, if not -the- best. You're obviously stuck playing Marksman or BM, which are far harder to AOE on than Survival is. Spec survival, toss down an explosive trap, and multishot until your hearts content. GG.
12/05/2012 05:04 AMPosted by Eldest
You're obviously stuck playing Marksman or BM, which are far harder to AOE on than Survival is. Spec survival, toss down an explosive trap, and multishot until your hearts content. GG.


^
I was suspecting a piss poor buff and SV is quite nice now...doing 5-10k more then i expect on everything
12/05/2012 05:04 AMPosted by Eldest
even being doubled, is pathetic


This is false. The new buff is ridiculous, my dps has gone up at least 5-10k overnight just due to the increased damage from Serpent Sting and my new found love of hunter multidotting. Learn to use your abilities to help you do more damage, we're one of the best AOE classes in the game, if not -the- best. You're obviously stuck playing Marksman or BM, which are far harder to AOE on than Survival is. Spec survival, toss down an explosive trap, and multishot until your hearts content. GG.


aoe is not the issue with hunter dps, all 3 specs are decent, with SV excelling at it (until MM gets its 3rd or 4th tier bow of the expansion, where multi shot MM [bombardment] will begin to compete even with SV aoe)

the issue with hunter pve damage is cleave, when there is more than 1 target but not enough that you should be aoeing (2-3) and this is where hunters fall behind, our single targte is within 5% of eveyr other classes single target, our aoe is arguably high for every spec when done right, and top tier for SV aoe, but on cleave, we fall off fast, because we dont really have multi dotting cleave, or cleave attacks, we have good single target and good aoe, but poor cleave, hence the issue with hunters current logs in pve being poor even with simcrafted dps beign very close and hunters losing vurtually nothing from movement mechanics, we lack in cleave, this base idea is to fix that, while also making it so we do have a penalty for movement (as some may argue this is the reason for no cleave)

the idea of aspect of the hydra is to make our single target weaker (and survival if specced into iron hawk) while giving us some cleave, mainly if done right, we should be cleaving for ~150% our single target damage, but each target will me takign noly 75% of what our single target capabilities are (15% RaP lost and likely either increased focus costs or a ~10% damage reduction on top of the AP loss)

and hydras venom (a BM only passive) would be there to compensate that BM is the only hunter spec thats signature shot would not benefit from AotHydra as it 'comes from' the pet and not the hunter for damage source wise, so this passive would cause BM to benefit on the cleave effect from AotHydra with its mastery boosting its damage, to make up for the loss of kill commands ability to cleave

and snipers training, should be in game in some form, as every ranged dps, even hunters do need to lose SOME dps to movement, though for hunters it should arguably be less than other classes as hunters were designed to be the mobile ranged class
it is time to bid the wow comunity adue, the subscription dies and my soul cries, my time with you is ending, goodby my hunter there will be no more slumber in the world of warcraft for you
12/06/2012 07:49 PMPosted by Alfavhunter
it is time to bid the wow comunity adue, the subscription dies and my soul cries, my time with you is ending, goodby my hunter there will be no more slumber in the world of warcraft for you


Thank God.
12/06/2012 10:23 PMPosted by Potato
it is time to bid the wow comunity adue, the subscription dies and my soul cries, my time with you is ending, goodby my hunter there will be no more slumber in the world of warcraft for you


Thank God.


QFT.
Never mind, already rerolled, my lock is almost 90, and I'm already seeing the superiority of that class compared to this trash can class.

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