4 specs but the worst of all of those specs

Druid
Jack of all trades but master of none... in fact the worst of all trades come to think of it.

Druids need a little help... All except feral those kitties seem ok.

Guardian - Worst tank in the game. Terrible at dmg mitigation since all they REALLY get is dodge which has diminishing returns. They are the only tank without parry which all tanks right now are taking 2.5x the amount of parry as dodge because its diminishing returns are better. They used to have a psuedo block but this was changed into higher dodge% which even at 100% isn't even half as good as someone with high parry.

Boomkin - Lowest damage in the game and even more damage loss than most classes if they have to move. The AoE works out ok but in boss fights there are few times where u need to use a hurricane spell.

Resto - bottom in heals of all the heal specs. I realize you may be a druid and you are outhealing the guys in your raid but that is completely because of your skill. Take that skill on another healer and even with less gear you do more healing. Spell costs are insanely high compare the bread and butter rejuv with the more improved glyphed renew. Sure the rejuv lasts longer but at WAY higher cost and less heal per tick. Without being paired with a shammy plan on having horrid mana issues.
11/19/2012 10:52 PMPosted by Dalorell
Worst tank in the game.
I love how you have no factual evidence to back up this statement.

11/19/2012 10:52 PMPosted by Dalorell
Terrible at dmg mitigation since all they REALLY get is dodge which has diminishing returns.
Dodge from Savage Defense does not suffer from DR. Further, we have the highest passive Physical and Magical damage reduction in the game.

11/19/2012 10:52 PMPosted by Dalorell
They are the only tank without parry which all tanks right now are taking 2.5x the amount of parry as dodge because its diminishing returns are better.
Not having Parry has never, and never will, have anything to do with it. Not only that but any tank with Parry suffers from double dipping on suppression. Not that tanks with Parry are bad or anything of course, but assuming we had extra avoidance in the form of Parry, our Armor would have to take a major hit as a result. We would end up being a worthless tank since eventually when we do take a hit, it would crush our faces.

11/19/2012 10:52 PMPosted by Dalorell
They used to have a psuedo block but this was changed into higher dodge% which even at 100% isn't even half as good as someone with high parry.
Right. Because taking 40% of the total damage of my DK counterpart is bad and so forth.

Savage Defense is actually absurdly powerful, especially on fights where you can have 100% uptime while tanking. And there are quite a few of those.
Wrong about everything except only partially resto's.
0/10. Stop being bad before you blame the class.
I don't actually play a tank i just heal them and no one addressed boomkins or resto. From my healing standpoint the squishiest tank wit hthe least ways to get their health back on their own is a druid. Sure they have enraged regen but would then be sacrificing their savage defense to gain some hp regen.

As for passive phys and magic reduc i see the physical with armor but it's not as much as having the added mitigations such as block and parry. Magic reduc is really nowhere to be found on a druid compared to their tanking counterparts.

A DK can nearly heal themselves without a healer and a paladin is pretty good at this too. Warriors have the most dmg mitigation.

Also what makes you think dodge doesn't have diminishing returns? Dodge has a WAY higher diminishing return than parry and that is why every guide will tell a tank for 5.1 to have 2.5x the parry rating over dodge.
11/20/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Dalorell
no one addressed boomkins or resto


Someone addressed resto, and no one is going to Address boomkin cause UM... Boomkin is't meant to Out DPS kitty.. the way Driud was made Boomkin was supposed to be more AoE and Less Single Target and Kitty the Opposite.

If someone leveled druid without knowing that then they are obviously retarded and need to re roll fast.

No one is going to address Resto cause good Resto's don't feel gimped, only teh lamez ones. Get some gear and u will see some improvement.
Resto druid is the top healer in pvp. Resto druid is fine.


Guardian - Worst tank in the game. Terrible at dmg mitigation since all they REALLY get is dodge which has diminishing returns. They are the only tank without parry which all tanks right now are taking 2.5x the amount of parry as dodge because its diminishing returns are better. They used to have a psuedo block but this was changed into higher dodge% which even at 100% isn't even half as good as someone with high parry.


This guy must have missed that memo http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/Sejta/simple
Dude. I understand the need to post when you find something you don't like. It's very much your right. But don't you think you have even the tiniest obligation to make sure that you're right first?

Dodge rating is affected by DR. Savage Defense does not grant dodge rating. It is not affected by DR.

I'm not even going to address the rest of Guardian, with parry and magic reduction. Anyone could correct you, and you're arguing with someone who could be considered the authority on the subject. Given that you're putting up such a vehement defense for things that are clearly wrong does not bode well for you winning that argument.

You're just flat-out wrong about boomkin. Not only isn't it the lowest DPS, but if you actually take a look at real-world stats and logs, you'll even find that it's slightly above average. Most of the whiny boomkin threads are going away because people are realizing that once you get over a certain gear level, it's really pretty good.

I know you're a boomkin, and even one that's cleared a lot of content, but your gear indicates that your problem may be in your atrocious gemming, your weird enchanting (spirit to chest? really?) and in the fact that you're wasting haste over the breakpoint. I'm going to assume that when you equip your weapon and off-hand (which is not equipped in your current armory profile...and you're not using a staff, are you?) that it moves you up to hit cap, because it isn't there now. Don't pin it on the class if you don't know how to use it.

Again, the real world...I've linked these "real world" stats before but if you're not going to make the effort to find them yourself or to read other threads before posting the same thing here, then I'm not going to make the effort to link them again...resto druids are right in the middle of the pack. Monks destroy everyone and will come down with nerfs. Pallies out-heal us on a lot of fights. We're competitive at least with everyone else, better than holy priests across the board, and better than shammies on many fights.

We do not run out of mana any more easily than anyone else (another point refuted in other threads) with the exception of the one place where we're weak: 25-man burst AoE healing, where we're forced to rely on the expensive Rejuvenation. Oddly, you didn't even point out this one actual problem that we do have.

You clearly don't have the facts, based on your arguments and your gear. Get them before complaining and you won't look like an idiot.
The trick to beating a shaman on healing is to know that they rely heavily on their mastery, which makes their healing stronger on low health targets. If your raid team is successful in preventing many low health situations, you neutralize their strongest advantage. Also, try to keep your raid spread out so they cannot employ their healing rains effectively.
The trick to beating a shaman on healing is to know that they rely heavily on their mastery, which makes their healing stronger on low health targets. If your raid team is successful in preventing many low health situations, you neutralize their strongest advantage. Also, try to keep your raid spread out so they cannot employ their healing rains effectively.


/boggle

Please tell me this is just a case of written sarcasm not coming through very clearly.
11/20/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Prall
The trick to beating a shaman on healing is to know that they rely heavily on their mastery, which makes their healing stronger on low health targets. If your raid team is successful in preventing many low health situations, you neutralize their strongest advantage. Also, try to keep your raid spread out so they cannot employ their healing rains effectively.


lol I'm pretty competitive on the meters, but I'm also supportive of my healing brothers and sisters when we're on the same team. I mean, I'll blow a tranq CD at the end of the fight when its clearly not needed just to pad the meters a lil' bit-- but to outright change things like raid positioning to neutralize their healing ability? Team player right there...

edit: btw resto is fine. "middle of the pack" as an above poster put it. which is the epitomy of "just right"
The trick to beating a shaman on healing is to know that they rely heavily on their mastery, which makes their healing stronger on low health targets. If your raid team is successful in preventing many low health situations, you neutralize their strongest advantage. Also, try to keep your raid spread out so they cannot employ their healing rains effectively.


Precisely. This is why I make every effort to 1) move out of any and all Healing Rains and 2) click off any instances of Earthliving or Riptide. Nice try bro, but I'm the HoT master around here. Now stand in that Efflorescence and try not to move while I plant mushrooms around you.
11/20/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Pawnzerkin
Resto druid is the top healer in pvp. Resto druid is fine.


Ummm...NO.

Blizzards tournament that spotted zero Resto druids and a TON of Shamans, 2 in the finals, says you're dead wrong.
11/20/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Dalorell
I don't actually play a tank i just heal them and no one addressed boomkins or resto. From my healing standpoint the squishiest tank wit hthe least ways to get their health back on their own is a druid. Sure they have enraged regen but would then be sacrificing their savage defense to gain some hp regen.
All I can say is you must be healing some really bad Guardians. Once you learn how to do it using your abilities at the correct time is pretty easy.

However it's also incredibly easy to just be completely terribad.

11/20/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Dalorell
As for passive phys and magic reduc i see the physical with armor but it's not as much as having the added mitigations such as block and parry. Magic reduc is really nowhere to be found on a druid compared to their tanking counterparts.
You have to remember that our damage reduction from Armor is significantly higher than that of any other tank. So while we may take more "full" hits (assuming no SD usage), each hit will be much smaller than "full" hits taken by any other tank.

I also think you need to re-read the Thick Hide talent.

11/20/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Dalorell
Also what makes you think dodge doesn't have diminishing returns? Dodge has a WAY higher diminishing return than parry and that is why every guide will tell a tank for 5.1 to have 2.5x the parry rating over dodge.
You're confusing Dodge Rating and Dodge from Agility with Savage Defense. Don't.

I'm all for discussion and sharing ideas, but you must support your ideas with facts and evidence if you want to discuss objective topics like performance.
11/20/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Pawnzerkin
Resto druid is the top healer in pvp.


Not really. Shaman, paladin, druid all have about the same representation at the moment and if you watched the battle.net event you would have noticed that not one single team fielded a resto druid...shaman all the way.
Ok im glad to hear some of these points but just so you know my gear is funny because of the position i am in in my raidgroup. I'm the guy who is constantly switching between healing and dps to down the next heroic boss and we are currently 5/6 MSV heroic and cleared all normals easily.

My gear is gemmed and enchanted for more resto than it is boomkin and im doing a lot of sharing between my rest oand boomkin gear. I'll go reforge for each fight that changes what is needed but im certainly not gonna go regem and enchant gear that is shared between each spec.

About the savage defense i didn't realize it's dodge was any different than the one effected by DR so i guess the guardian is in a better spot than i thought. The guy i was healing for a long time seemed ok but the big problem was if things got a little spread out the DK just healed himself back to full while the druid simply died. As far as i could notice the other tanks like pally and warrior were doing close to what the DK was but not the bear.

I hope you're right about the gear thing because if that's the case the more gear i get to seperate my resto from my boomkin gear the better it will be... but i honestly don't see it coming anywhere near the warlock and mage no matter what i do.

As for anything else i am getting a lot of info from noxxic(dot)com and they rank boomkins VERY low and i can see why based on our mobility. They also show haste>crit which most on here are saying different. It's hard to tell who is right.
As for resto you can say they are midpack but let's look at tsulong. A druid can't put out the numbers any of the rest of the healers can not even against a holy priest (which is good at this fight). Mana is a much bigger issue on this class moreso than anything else. A holy priest can spam all they like and simply mindbender their mana back essentially making it near impossible to oom. A resto shammy can LB and every class has a lot of regen while we get a 3min CD that just doesnt do nearly as much regen.

Besides this the current tier of fights does not favor the resto druid approach to healing. Now i admit im healing with a disc priest (kitachie) that is ranked number 1 in the world on almost every fight so it's hard to get a heal in when all the dmg is being blocked by divine aegis and spirit shell but i still end up in a bad spot on a fight like tsulong.
I wouldn't call someone ranked number 1 in the world on almost every fight if you havn't touched 1 H-HoF boss yet. Not trying to downplay your teams accomplishments, by all means > than me by far.

Healing with a disc priest is frustrating if your a druid, particularly with their seemingly endless mana. In theory, if hes just trying to boost his ranking he can do that no problem by theorhetically sniping EVERY single one of your heals and still not oom.

Even if he does not try to stomp the meters, he's still likely to snipe >80% of a Druids heals.
Healing with a geared/skilled disc at this point = You might as well just look at your Resto Druids overheals. If they're insane, you're doing fine. He's just meter hogging.
11/20/2012 04:33 PMPosted by Tonydanza
Blizzards tournament that spotted zero Resto druids and a TON of Shamans, 2 in the finals, says you're dead wrong.


11/20/2012 05:01 PMPosted by Weepea
if you watched the battle.net event you would have noticed that not one single team fielded a resto druid...shaman all the way.


AIUI, the teams that qualified for that event did so in 4.3. Rdruids were terrible then, and so there were no RDruids. RShams were OP, and there were a lot of RShams.

Druids are in a pretty good spot for PvP right now.

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