A gladiator's view on the Dk current state

Arenas
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new glyph

Glyph of Icebound Fortitude-(still usable while stunned) now provides 50% damage reduction but no longer provides temporary immunity to stun

if you want to give dk more utility, please tone down the damage a bit.


icbf is now a part of dk mobility, i understand that change would increase survivability if you glyphed it but then youd lose mobility and youd be back to square one asking for mobility like the op is asking for in this thread. You say ''if you want to give dk more utility, please tone down the damage a bit'' -this is where the problems arise. If you tone down damage in exchange for more pvp utility or even mobility then where does that leave the pve'rs cause im pretty sure dks arent doing to well in pve right now, so if you nerfed their dmg youd have a sh** storm of pve complaints.

Another thing to think about is the utility, do you honestly think this game needs more cc in it? every class and spec has at least 2 different forms of crowd control, AT LEAST. If you take all this into consideration you come to realize dks are in a bad spot, a very bad spot. Actually i just now had an idea which could solve survivability problems against melee and also give the class more utility without giving it more cc or dmg or even nerfing its damage.

deathcoil useable to heal the dk and his teammates at all times, like a wog, balance out the healing so its not retarted over the top, it would have to heal for about 30-35k for the amount of runic power it costs(maybe?), if a melee is sitting on a dk then hes gaining runic power and using it to deathcoil himself there ya go. Or you could just make deathcoil a heal on the dk and his pets only, but make lichborne a buff you can apply to yourself or teammates and you could only heal teammates if you put lichborne on them. lichborne would then be a fear break for self only (or teammates) and a healing utility cooldown on teammates.
QQQQQQQ So you arent the easiest class to get high rankings anymore.... cry me a river so I go bass fishing.

and strang no rune cost and 1min cd and off gcd


I really hope this happens, so annoying playing my alt DK.
While there are minor buffs to be had, I would say it would be in everybody's best interest that rather than buffing DKs to be on par with warriors, mages, or demo locks that we should start by nerfing other classes. DKs do an insane amount of damage, constantly. The problem is they have no way to make this damage stick, it's easily healable because the DK has no way to lock down heals and doesn't have the mobility to chase heals if they are being peeled. This isn't very uncommon for melee, DKs just have it the worst. That isn't the problem though. The problem is that warriors and mages do so much better burst damage they can easily kill a DK in a silence and if you're class is being easily killed by the two most common DPS then you're unviable.

I do agree strangulate should be off the GCD and without a cost, it's quite silly in it's current incarnation. I feel that most DKs don't utilize their class to it's full potential still playing with a mind set that it's a faceroll easy class. DK mobility is fine for where there damage is, DK survivability is a result of being killed by OP classes. In PvP we need less instant CC, so rather than buffing one class, we should nerf the real offenders.
new glyph

Glyph of Icebound Fortitude-(still usable while stunned) now provides 50% damage reduction but no longer provides temporary immunity to stun

if you want to give dk more utility, please tone down the damage a bit.


icbf is now a part of dk mobility, i understand that change would increase survivability if you glyphed it but then youd lose mobility and youd be back to square one asking for mobility like the op is asking for in this thread. You say ''if you want to give dk more utility, please tone down the damage a bit'' -this is where the problems arise. If you tone down damage in exchange for more pvp utility or even mobility then where does that leave the pve'rs cause im pretty sure dks arent doing to well in pve right now, so if you nerfed their dmg youd have a sh** storm of pve complaints.

Another thing to think about is the utility, do you honestly think this game needs more cc in it? every class and spec has at least 2 different forms of crowd control, AT LEAST. If you take all this into consideration you come to realize dks are in a bad spot, a very bad spot. Actually i just now had an idea which could solve survivability problems against melee and also give the class more utility without giving it more cc or dmg or even nerfing its damage.

deathcoil useable to heal the dk and his teammates at all times, like a wog, balance out the healing so its not retarted over the top, it would have to heal for about 30-35k for the amount of runic power it costs(maybe?), if a melee is sitting on a dk then hes gaining runic power and using it to deathcoil himself there ya go. Or you could just make deathcoil a heal on the dk and his pets only, but make lichborne a buff you can apply to yourself or teammates and you could only heal teammates if you put lichborne on them. lichborne would then be a fear break for self only (or teammates) and a healing utility cooldown on teammates.


yea i understand the pve aspect atm, same thing for warriors, people want more warrior damage nerfs but arms itself is in a deep hole

as for the death coil idea, it would be extremely overpowered (everyone would roll unholy)

for it to work there would have to be a huge runic power cost, 40-60 and then, or have a cooldown


icbf is now a part of dk mobility, i understand that change would increase survivability if you glyphed it but then youd lose mobility and youd be back to square one asking for mobility like the op is asking for in this thread. You say ''if you want to give dk more utility, please tone down the damage a bit'' -this is where the problems arise. If you tone down damage in exchange for more pvp utility or even mobility then where does that leave the pve'rs cause im pretty sure dks arent doing to well in pve right now, so if you nerfed their dmg youd have a sh** storm of pve complaints.

Another thing to think about is the utility, do you honestly think this game needs more cc in it? every class and spec has at least 2 different forms of crowd control, AT LEAST. If you take all this into consideration you come to realize dks are in a bad spot, a very bad spot. Actually i just now had an idea which could solve survivability problems against melee and also give the class more utility without giving it more cc or dmg or even nerfing its damage.

deathcoil useable to heal the dk and his teammates at all times, like a wog, balance out the healing so its not retarted over the top, it would have to heal for about 30-35k for the amount of runic power it costs(maybe?), if a melee is sitting on a dk then hes gaining runic power and using it to deathcoil himself there ya go. Or you could just make deathcoil a heal on the dk and his pets only, but make lichborne a buff you can apply to yourself or teammates and you could only heal teammates if you put lichborne on them. lichborne would then be a fear break for self only (or teammates) and a healing utility cooldown on teammates.


yea i understand the pve aspect atm, same thing for warriors, people want more warrior damage nerfs but arms itself is in a deep hole

as for the death coil idea, it would be extremely overpowered (everyone would roll unholy)

for it to work there would have to be a huge runic power cost, 40-60 and then, or have a cooldown


or the healing could be tuned, which it would be, it needs to basically heal so little that it makes you think it sucks, but over time it can save your life. In situations where dks are trained for whole games(happens alot) a small 30k heal every now and then can go a long way to increase survivability, and it doesnt have to be 30k, it can be 15k?(maybe make lichborne increase healing recieved from deathcoil by 50%? or something so that lichborne is still a viable survivability cooldown) the point is itll help without adding more cc to the game, itll help by adding utility to deathknights and increasing survivability.

You have to also realize that if the dk is spending runic power on deathcoils to heal then hes not spending rp on deathcoils/frost strikes to do damage, its the same thing rets have to do with holy power and wogs, if they spend holy power on wogs then they arent spending it on 330% weapon damage templars verdict. This shouldnt over time put out more healing then an enhancement shaman, on the melee totem pole of healing its rets at the top ferals probably second then enhance, dks should be 4th on this totem pole. the game doesnt need more off healers, dk healing on partners should be extremely minimal or only when they buff them with lichborne like i suggested in the other post.

At the end of the day dks have zero peels, they are similiar to rets in this situation since all of their ''peels'' are dispellable hoj blind. bop sac are utility and both dispellable also, rets only legit peel is their off heals, if dks can heal teammates even a small amount or even just while lichborne is on a teammate(see my first post) it could go a long way to help the class in the right hands.

im not saying make deathcoil heal for 80-100k, im not saying make dks self healing/off healing with deathcoil good enough to make triple dk 3s a viable comp or something, the heals should be small but overtime help alot and in some close situations should save their lives where they would have otherwise died without it, aka being trained 100% of a game and dying the first time they have no cooldown to live and their healer eats one of the many instant cc's in this game.
Whatever changes these threads provoke, I just want unholy to be superior to frost in arena again.
ITT: Suggestions that make your class ridiculously overpowered in some way.

Oh wait...


Shadow priest....

You poor soul.
I agree wholeheartedly with Strangulate and Remorseless Winter concerns.

I can appreciate different classes being different, with different toolkits lending itself to varying ability "power", but the ease of use, cd discrepancy and effectiveness of strangulate compared to any other blanket silence in the game is a little silly. I think it would be monumentally difficult to compare say a mage's toolkit to a dks and arrive at the conclusion that their respective silence are appropiately balanced.

Remorseless Winter is another disaster by the same geniuses that design Death Knight abilities to be, on paper, stronger and more effective than any other similar ability, but have such a steep requirements to get off effectively that you very rarely actually get to use the ability to any effect. Hungering Cold last expansion; long lasting, aoe, low cooldown ability. They slapped that stupid cast time requirement on it, and the ability became near unusuable against semi-competant teams.

Soul Reaper falls into the same trap. An execute that works at 35%, far above what any other classes execute at. Then they design to be dispellable and go off 6s after application. Not to mention spell-reflectable. I can get a soul reaper to actually execute MAYBE once a night.

We just want working !@#$ing abilities. I'm tired of having to jump through near impossible hoops to get abilities off that honestly aren't worth the extra aggravation. Nerf Remorseless Winters duration, triple its cooldown, idc, but make it so its worth pressing the button. Return instant hungering but unlink it from death grip. Double the cd. JUST MAKE IT SO WE CAN ACTUALLY USE IT. Make Soul Reaper start executing once you hit the button under 35% but break it up into dot damage. Or something.

Now unto your Death's Advance section; this is one I'd have to actually experience, but my gut reaction is that it would lead to extremely high uptime coupled with chillblains. I'm not certain that's best for the game. That said, it seems to be the growing trend with melee this expansion to have silly uptime, so in the metagame it might not be a big deal.

Personally I think our greatest issue is not having a CC in the 20-40s cd range. All the other melee do, some with a lot more.
Very good post. Strangulate is very out-dated. There's no reliable "rune on demand" skill at the moment for it to work well, not to mention needing to reduce pressure to save a global for it.

Icebound CD is a little too long for the amount it reduces, could be worked on as well.
I've seen some people who still think Dks are OP even in current state and think they are fine... Let me explain on certain things.

Mages do 300k Frost Bomb? Nerf Dks.
Warriors do crazy amount of burst? Nerf Dks.
Hunters get to use AoTD in Arenas while we don't? Nerf Dks.
Warlocks use chaos waves and ignore AMS? Nerf Dks.
Monks get to have a massive mobility compare to us? Nerf Dks.
(Yes, i know. Monks aren't really good at pvp)
Rogues get to stunlock? Nerf Dks.
Paladins get to bubble and get our HC? Nerf Dks.
Druids get to shapeshift and have a blink + vanish? Nerf Dks.
Shamans get to have 30 yd auto attack? Nerf Dks.
(I feel sorry for the totem nerfs btw :( )
Priests get to AoE Fear Spam and use vanish? Nerf Dks.
(not saying OP but with GC logic, we still getting nerfed)

And above all classes, they have heals and survivability... Hell, even rogues seem to have better survivability than us.
Seriously, if you think Dks are fine. You are an idiot.


This post gave me cancer.
ITT: Suggestions that make your class ridiculously overpowered in some way.

Oh wait...


Shadow priest....

You poor soul.


Yes, they're so heinously OP, right? The concessions I give to this? The Flash Heals are too spammable, the psychic scream is infuriating.

Really, for a class which doesn't have 1. High burst potential, 2. A root effect 3. A snare which isn't channeled, 4. No peeling mechanisms other than fear/horror for melee, silence on a respectable cooldown, 5. A defensive other than Dispersion (don't count lifeswap) it's still OP? I'll concede, it's good in the right hands, it's not the best caster by any means - definitely not as absurd as it's portrayed by some to be. List your counter-arguments. Come at me.
Remorseless Winter's tooltip should just say....

"good against bad players, won't ever work against good players."
There are some good contributions in here. I'm excited to read into them. I'll throw some responses out too once i get a moment.
new glyph

Glyph of Icebound Fortitude-(still usable while stunned) now provides 50% damage reduction but no longer provides temporary immunity to stun

if you want to give dk more utility, please tone down the damage a bit.


I personally think we shouldnt have to sacrifice a glyph slot just to make icebound a worthy defensive cooldown. Lets just compare our ONLY melee defensive cooldown with this gem

Cold Snap
Instant 3 min cooldown
Requires Mage
Requires level 60
When activated, this spell finishes the cooldown of your Ice Block, Frost Nova, and Cone of Cold spells. Instantly restores 30% of your health. This spell is usable while stunned, frozen, incapacitated, feared or asleep, and is not on the global cooldown.

Icebound Fortitude
20 Runic Power
Instant cast 3 min cooldown
Requires Death Knight
Requires level 62
The Death Knight freezes his blood to become immune to Stun effects and reduce all damage taken by 20% for 12 sec.

death knights have !@#$ cooldowns and they should be looked at, because in the game today they do not even come close to what everyone else has. Icebound should be 50% damage reduction like it was when we first got it, a 3min cd, and no cost. I also think empower rune weapon should be on a 3min cd so that it compares to other classes burst cds.

Death knights have solid damage but so do mages, warriors, hunters, locks, spriests, rets, ferals, etc. We, however, do not have nearly the control, mobility, or survivability of these classes. We shouldn't have to trade off anything in our current state.
11/25/2012 07:29 AMPosted by Xiun
Am I the only one who thinks DKs are in a balanced state right now, just all the god classes make them feel weak?


Nope, but you're one of the more intelligent voices on balance with that statement.
bump with ideas man!

The quick fix for dks is to buff icebound to 50% and lower strangulates cd to 1min and drop the rune cost (and in turn lower cd on asphyxiate/make it silence and stun), maybe lower cd on remorseless winter to 30s.

Really though, we are one of the classes that needs an overhaul of our talents and our abilities so that they are competitive. No reason a mage should have 10x the survivability of a dk while keeping their control and their damage.

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