Why we need to see LFR boss status

General Discussion
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11/29/2012 02:00 PMPosted by Smakke
LFR is optional. Don't like it? Don't do it.


"B-b-but NOOO, LFR is MANDITORY because it gives VALOR and EPICS and BAWWWWWWW." **flailing limbs, uncontrollable tears**

-- these same people, last week on their last raging tirade about LFR.

Everything in the game is optional. That doesn't mean people have to be happy about how everything is implemented. PvP is optional; stop whining about overpowered specs.
11/29/2012 01:53 PMPosted by Alastair

The truth of what? Cata showed they are absolutely terrified of losing customers; hence why MoP was rushed. Bashioks flippant and stupid comment... won't exactly endear Blizzard to the current critics. Hence why it was extremely unprofessional.


100% this. Heck look we are 2 mo in a xpac and the slashed the price of it by 50%

When the Q4 numbers come out we will see more losses of subs. With the things they have done and the remarks said it makes you wonder if they are just trying to kill the game off themselves


I've wondered about that 50% off too. I know the business world isn't thrilled with the MOP numbers.
11/29/2012 01:05 PMPosted by Ariktu
Unless of course you address why players leave groups. Some of the bosses are just harder for an LFR group to do. So you might need to tune the fights better to make success rate higher in a pug with no voice communication.


But that really is not the problem. Last week while we had been sitting waiting for 2 more heals(5-10 minutes) a rogue got sick of waiting. runs in and pulls make a mess of pheromones then runs back into the raid putting pheromones into the meelee. so a semi afk raid, 4 heals. Yep wipe. 12 People leave.

We wait for replacements, we pull with 2 organised kiters, No problem , no one dies. A very easy kill. It was not the fault of the raid that they wiped in the first place solely the rogue and he was frustrated because healers kept refusing the queue.
Can we just write, like ALL OVER THE PLACE, that completing a partial run grants you a guaranteed fresh queue next time? People still don't seem to understand this.

I do NOT understand people declining 2/6 queues one after another to get a fresh run. You spend as much time declining those pops, if not MORE, as you would just joining a damn 2/6 run, finishing it, and re-queuing.


Except you don't always get a 0/6 after finishing a partial. In my experience it's not even close to 100%, probably more along the lines of 50-75%. I have declined a lot of 2/3 queues after having just done one. Remember, it's not a zero sum game. Significant amounts of raiders (the people balancing the dead weight queued in greens with BOEs in their bags) are going to be perfectly happy doing just the last boss, and will not re-queue for the front 2 bosses. I know I myself am not going to re-queue on my main if I get lucky with just Will or Garalon, for example.

(Edit): You don't waste time by declining partial pops though, you can keep doing dailies/camping the AH/anything else you want. Staying to finish bosses you have already killed right now is not worth the time invested. Either up the reward for staying for completed bosses, or guarantee fresh queues if you have downed the final boss.

Then I get on my alt, and get back to back to back 1/3 queues, with the choice of staying for 45 minutes or more for 45 valor, or doing something else for 30 minutes while I eat the debuff. Of the two choices, I know I am not alone in taking the break to log an alt, or do dailies, or watch tv, or fix a sandwich.

The short version is they need to either make it 100% chance for a fresh instance if you are saved to later bosses, or increase the rewards for staying for bosses you have already done. As a suggestion to spark discussion in this route, say you got 1/3, then requeue for a fresh instance. If you remain in the raid, give a bonus roll for the bosses remaining. This would incentivize staying to raid end, as well as throttling the late-week 2/3 queue spam.
11/29/2012 01:59 PMPosted by Darkelite
then make it where if your already down say the last boss or 2, you wont get put back into a 2/3 left raid. Thats the only issue. Being forced into a raid in which i am not able to recieve loot from, or accepting a deserter status


The system already attempts to do that. A very large percentage of the time it is effective. I'm sure Bashiok knows how often it works, but I'm sure it's around 99% of the time.
As a healer, I NEVER will do a 1/6 or 2/6 already defeated LFR. EVER.

I will simply place myself on auto-follow, and either afk or simply stand there and heal only myself, in the hopes of either getting kicked and avoiding said debuff, they'll wipe - in which I can leave without said debuff or they'll complete the run without me and I'll get gold or gear. Either way, I get what I want out of the deal.


That's a rather poor attitude to take, especially considering meaningful rewards are still available. Maybe an MMO isn't the right kind of game for you? :)

Yes but unfortunately that is the prevailing attitude of the player base. I personally don't care one way or another but you really didn't correct the problem.

If I go into an in progress raid and finish it I then que up and probably get a fresh instance. I kill the bosses I need and leave because I already got my valor from the first time. So now someone else has to come in and take my place and repeat the process.

The old way if a group started falling apart then at least you would get the players that only wanted the last boss or the last two bosses because they were the ones accepting the que. I know when I was just trying to valor cap for the week I was excited to see 2/6 defeated. Just meant I had to do one boss to get my valor.
11/29/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Moofaza
LFR is optional. Don't like it? Don't do it.


Stop it. People like this don't understand the word "optional". Let me direct you to one of the 5,000 daily complaint threads.


totally optional.

look at my armoury. look at my progression and look at my LFR boss kills.
11/29/2012 02:01 PMPosted by Bashiok
I think the domino effect that this will cause will force most everyone to queue 2 times for every raid.


How are you not queuing twice, or more, waiting for a 0/6 run?

Anyway, there are still plenty of runs making it to completion, which means less people joining in-progress runs, and that only increases as people learn the fights and their gear improves.

Do you think it is preferable to do it all in one go, or to do half of it, then have to wait 25 minutes to do the other half?
The problem with this issue, is that Blizzard (or at least whoever made the decision to no longer show raid status) has presented a false choice.

Just because you removed someone's ability to see in advance if the instance is partially clear or not does NOT mean that people will stay to finish them. It means many of us will simply leave the queue and wait off the deserter debuff. In such a case, all you've accomplished is less customer satisfaction.

If you REALLY want to solve the issue, the better way to go about it is to provide some sort of bonus incentive for people to re-kill bosses they've already cleared, or to proceed with a partially cleared instance. If you awarded bonus valor upon raid completion for a raid already partially cleared, you'd see people less worried about skipping out and doing all the bosses in order because they'd be compensated in some way (it's not as though an additional 25 valor points is going to dramatically alter the valor structure). As for being asked to re-kill bosses you've already cleared, perhaps a money-bag (like the ones we already get when loot doesn't drop) with an added small chance at a rare mount would encourage people to go ahead and finish things up.

This current method only ensures people will continuously game the system by either waiting off debuffs or as a previous poster mentioned, afking until they get kicked or wipe.
And even the people who normally might feel bad about having such a poor attitude towards LFR no longer will, because they'll feel they are responding in kind to the poor attitude Blizzard had with this unwelcome change. This actually is the opposite of what you were going for, in that now there are people actively looking to get removed from raids or simply autoattacking their way through because they can't immediately drop and let someone else who doesn't mind have a crack at it.
LFR been pain lately with mainly get gold roll all of them some rare time get loot.
not telling us mean wasted time on boss get no loot.
people still leave group if not 5 man the want or there loot dose't drop.
11/29/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Thunderherd
I've wondered about that 50% off too. I know the business world isn't thrilled with the MOP numbers.


They make more on subscriptions than they do retail box sales. The goal is to get people playing, and then collect sub money.
11/29/2012 01:15 PMPosted by Niialuna
There's a deserter debuff given if you don't stay and participate in the raid.


As a healer, I NEVER will do a 1/6 or 2/6 already defeated LFR. EVER.

I will simply place myself on auto-follow, and either afk or simply stand there and heal only myself, in the hopes of either getting kicked and avoiding said debuff, they'll wipe - in which I can leave without said debuff or they'll complete the run without me and I'll get gold or gear. Either way, I get what I want out of the deal.

When I run my LFRs for the week, I intend to get only fresh runs and start at the beginning of each instance I do. Period. This change isn't going to change anything for me.

And there are many more people like me apparently, if this change is any indication.


Cool, and now your on my /ignore list so ill never be in a group with you. Thanks for posting on a public forum about how horrible a person you are so I never have to deal with you!
It's hypocritical. I am not going to stay in an LFR where I gain nothing, all it is doing is forcing me into a deserter debuff. I MUCH rather redo an entire LFR instance for the last boss if the raid group dissipates than have to only need the first boss only to have the 4 or 5 ques after that pop me in on the last boss. It's an even greater waste of time and takes the control away from the playerbase. If people want to get the last boss in they should look for a fresh run because that will most likely include the last boss, meanwhile I don't feel like going into a 2/3 LFR with only the boss I have already killed left.

Can't people who just joined leave immediately upon seeing that it's not a fresh run and just queue again? I believe if a boss is killed you don't get deserter for leaving so this doesn't fix the issue you're trying to fix really.

=/


There's a deserter debuff given if you don't stay and participate in the raid.

And that is completely stupid. Why punish players in the que instead of the ones causing the wipe? I thought death was supposed to mean something, if players want to get the final boss make them reque, but I don't want to have to go through 4 or 5 of the same final boss for absolutely nothing in order to save other people time!
11/29/2012 02:01 PMPosted by Ariktu
Just because you hate his answer does not mean it is not important for Blizzard to understand this already goes on and may increase which will make completion of LFR's more difficult for their customers.


Whine posts don't offer anything constructive/useful. I don't care how you dress it up or paint it, you're wrong.
11/29/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Thunderherd
I've wondered about that 50% off too. I know the business world isn't thrilled with the MOP numbers.


Which is why Forbes listed Mike Morhaime as Tech Entrepreneur of the year, right?

Or Walstreet Journal gave MOP a glowing review?

Right?

Right??

TL;DR: pretending that Blizzard is 'suffering financually' just because your babby ego is brused by them making a huge system improvement fixes nothing for you.
It seems to me this is just going to create a perpetual re-queue of the raids.
I join and get a 2/3 down, so now I have to sit in queue again and if I am lucky I get a fresh run.
Then I leave on boss 3, because I can get no drops from it and already have my VP for the weekly of the raid.
Now someone else gets tossed into that spot and they now need the first 2 bosses, rinse and repeat over and over and over.
The reason people usually turned down a half finished raid was it often had been a wipefest or they didn't want to get stuck praying the next queue had the bosses they still needed loot form up.
This doesn't solve the issue, it just puts us on a never ending merry go round of lfr's.
I'm pretty sure that when people are forced to join raids that have the first 2 bosses down in an LFR, once they begrudgingly do those last remaining bosses and queue up again for the ones they missed, they're just going to drop group as soon as their second LFR group gets to the boss that they originally started on in their first attempt at queueing.

All this is going to do is encourage more people to drop out of raids midway through because they had already done the last 2 bosses after queueing into a half-finished LFR. Once they queue into a fresh LFR and kill the earlier bosses that they still need, they will drop group and it will continue.

So it doesn't really fix anything. It just makes players dislike the system for wasting their time and making them run LFR two or three times just to get the bosses they need. The extra valor for completing an LFR even if you can't get loot from the final bosses just isn't worth it. No one's going to stay and do bosses that they already got loot from. They're going to drop group and add to the problem.

And honestly, if group's are completely disbanding after repeated wipes to an LFR boss then they were either really poorly skilled or the LFR boss was way too over-tuned. The ONLY time I've ever seen a group collapse in LFR is on Will of the Emperors, which is one of the more difficult encounters. But seriously, nothing else is a problem.

Dumb change, I'll be ditching the run if I'm thrown into a half-finished LFR. And in the unlikely event that I do stay and do the last couple bosses, I will surely ditch the -second- LFR group that I queue into once I clean up the first few bosses that I missed in the first half.

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