Why doesn't Bliz release *full* patch notes?

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11/28/2012 07:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
So it's just coincidence that almost all of the stuff that you "forgot" to put in the patch notes are things that negatively impact the game?

I have a question for you:

Do you really think that we believe that players are happier to find these things out on accident, with no warning? That somehow we think we can slip things by un-detected, when logic, history, and all evidence points to the contrary?

What's the advantage there?

It keeps the forums alive with complaints? LOL
11/28/2012 09:15 PMPosted by Zinstorm
So according to blizzard the answer to your question is human error... weather you agree that's reasonable or not... every profession in the world has human error in some way shape or form... so this can be a fesable answer.

Human error IS an acceptable answer to me; I can understand that ... been there, done that, got the too-small t-shirt and the coffee mug with the hole in it.

Looking through these (and other posts), however, I'm struck by how many times the same "human error" has happened over and over and over and over. As one poster alluded to, there seems to be internal problems that Blizz (for one reason or another) is NOT addressing to improve it's own "corporate" quality and efficiency. I don't cast any blame on Daxx; if no one feeds him the info, he can't document it. I actually empathize with him to a large degree because HE has to take the heat for someone else screwing the pooch. By hitching up his belt another notch and entering these forums, he's taken on the undesirable job of "scapegoat."

I've thought, for at least three years now, that there was something drastically wrong inside BlizzEnt HQ; Daxx just validated those thoughts. Here's another thought -- does that drastically-wrong-something extend into (if not throughout) the Dev Team? It would explain a lot ..... like:

Fixing a bug in one part of the code, but breaking two (or more) other sections of code, as though they have no clue what the relationship of that one part they're fixing has with other parts; or,

The whole mandatory RealID in these forums thing (that, thankfully, got removed rather quickly); or,

Revising the code in the PTR that addon developers tested in order to update their addons, then going live without testing it and/or giving the developers the new code they need, resulting in out-of-date "updated" addons.

The right hand doesn't appear to know what the left hand is doing. And Daxx is in here taking the heat for it.
11/28/2012 09:21 PMPosted by Cordanus
It's not like these people said the night before they'll change time zones, change LFR queues, and change everything else.

Damn! Fooled me again! I thought that was how they do it out there in SoCal ..... You know: the Jerry Brown, Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein approach ("We have to pass it so we can find out what's in it"). LOL
Just a thought but with the sheer amount of revenue this game pulls in every month you guys can get a better database management system put in that would automatically update changes like this. Most big companies have them and it take human error right out of the mix.

Basically if a person or team works on a certian section of the game when they turn that code back in through the database management system it automatically generates notes of the changes. This information could then be automatically sorted into groups of information on what effects gameplay and what is just "Behind the sceens" stuff and then a report is generated and there's your patchnotes.
11/28/2012 07:12 PMPosted by Daxxarri
It's also worth noting that, as the code changes to resolve issues and implement new features, sometimes things go unexpectedly wonky with older parts of the game.

Why is it so extreme? Upon 5.1 release, stuff is broken allover the place. The Klaxxi dailies were a mess. Half the dailies were missing their description text. Mobs marked incorrectly and had "Unknown" over their head. Feeder quest is busted, sonic kuchong is busted, and others.

What I'm asking is, how come adding a single item and related code to the quartermaster breaks 5 quests you didn't even tamper with?
But won't this just perpetuate the problem of people leaving during raids even more?

If I join a partially finished raid, then go to another raid to finish the bosses I haven't done I will then be leaving after completing the bosses I need. Blizz needs to find some way to keep people in the raid for the whole thing from boss 1 to until the end.

We're always working toward a better system. In the meantime, while the scenario you describe could happen, we should still see more consistent groups and lower queue times than we were seeing previously.

The way to do this would require a few changes.

1 - When using a Greater Coin for another roll, in the case of LFR it is not an extra roll it is an automatic successful roll and you get an item. Does not mean you will not already have it but if you use a coin in LFR only you get a piece of loot from the loot table.

2 - Since the loot chance is low enough always allow a loot roll no matter how many times you have killed the boss, LFR only again.

If the top end guilds run LFR till their eyes bleed then let them, who cares. LFR is not designed for them anyway.
11/28/2012 07:38 PMPosted by Daxxarri
We're always working toward a better system. In the meantime, while the scenario you describe could happen, we should still see more consistent groups and lower queue times than we were seeing previously.

That scenario used to happen a whole lot. ...who knows if it still will., but remember the thread about "LFR 2/6 fail" or whatever it was? I ran into that every week since the 2nd half of msv was opened.
Lower spawn rate of nodes? Sure, it might be less, but it's still a TON.
I'm not sure I'd be interested in seeing all the "changed doodad_3_blue to doodad_4_green" statements a full list might contain.

They release what they feel is important to the players. Some thing slip through the cracks at times. But we get most of the good stuff.

The changes to PvP power is not excusable to "slip through the cracks" nor is that shaman macros to destroy our own totems are broken (if anyone has working ones I'd love to see them) as if they weren't breaking totems enough. They may as well get rid of them and just have them as spells.
Firstly, to Daxx: Thank you for taking the time to update the additional information found in the patch notes. They're now much more clear.

Second, I do have one question/gripe:

•The Raid Finder system will no longer provide a notification regarding how many bosses have been defeated in an instance. Joining and completing a partially cleared raid will ensure a fresh instance when the player next queues.
•Joining and then quickly leaving a partially cleared Raid Finder raid will give a deserter debuff, restricting re-queuing for 30 minutes.

The first point: Yay!
The second point: Yay...wait. Wha?

So, let's say I queue for a HoF and it pops me in a 2/3 and I kill Garalon with that group. I requeue and get a fresh run as guaranteed. If I kill just the first two bosses, and, seeing as I don't need to kill Garalon again, drop group, I will get a 30 min debuff?

While I understand partly the motivation behind adding a deserter status, I can see that more for those who pop into a 2/3, say "Nope," and leave. If I put in work to clear at least one boss, will I still get this deserter status, despite having cleared the boss in a prior instance that week?
This should most definitely been in the patch nots yet absolutely nothing has been said about it from Blizzards end.

Indeed, it should have been. The fact that completing a partially cleared instance should cause your next Raid Finder queue to always be a fresh instance should also have been noted as well.

I'll be adding both of those to the notes shortly, in fact.

Adding it to the notes doesn't do a damn thing, Daxx. Put that note in the UI when you bring up the LFR window.

Having it there for the past year or so would have done SO MUCH.
interesting idea.. Give LFR the ability to que for specific bosses. You que for the first boss you get a fresh run. You only need the last boss you que for it that way (since we can't see what we are getting anymore) you get what you que for and people don't just que and drop when they see it's not a fresh run.
11/28/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I'll be honest: I'm having a hard time picturing how you think things work around here. I admit to having a nice diabolic cackle now and then, but it's not like I'm sitting in front of a bank of monitors each filled with an angry forum thread, stroking a siamese cat and telling my henchmen that they've failed me for the last time.

If I lived in SoCal, I would put in an application for the henchman position. It should be noted that I am quite good with that line of work as well.
This reminds me of all the mods I used to make for "CoD" and "Elder Scrolls". I've lost track as to how many I've made. I always posted EVERYTHING" I did and why. It's not hard to keep notes on what you're doing. It's called a pencil and paper. It really does work.
To quote Jonathan Swift:"You cannot reason someone out of what they were never reasoned into." You can't use logic to defeat a conspiracy theorist, because logic has nothing to do with why they believe what they believe.

The idea that any company which relies on happy customers for a profit would deliberately anger customers "for the lulz" is self-evidently ridiculous, but you see it on every MMORPG board. The conspiracy theorist lives in a world where people are evil for the sake of being evil; a change to a game is not due to the company looking at long-term effects, game balance, or simple coding error, but due to the fact the company employees like to "screw the players", despite the fact the players can quit any time.[1] The conspiracy theorist sees himself as a helpless victim of "them", whether "they" are the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, or a bunch of geeks at a game company. "Their" motivation is his suffering, and that alone; if he suffers, "they" are happy, and so, it doesn't really matter to him if "they" have no other plausible motivation or if the alleged motivation is not actually served by their actions.

[1]The other side of this is the "They're only doing this to keep people from canceling their subs!" whenever some beneficial feature, new content, etc, is announced. This is presented as some sort of astounding insight, a great revelation of the dark plots of the Secret Masters, as if the idea a company which makes money from people subscribing to the game would take actions to keep players happy is somehow evil, twisted, or secret. It's the equivalent of "This restaurant only serves food because you pay them, and they make it taste good so you'll keep coming back! They're not making food because they like you! That $5.00 coupon is just a way to get you to come here and spend even MORE money! Don't you see how you're being TRICKED?"
First time Ive ever seen someone get a blue all riled up. good way to get a forum suspension though :)

in before thread lock/deletion
Indeed, it should have been. The fact that completing a partially cleared instance should cause your next Raid Finder queue to always be a fresh instance should also have been noted as well.I'll be adding both of those to the notes shortly, in fact.

I have to say, asking us to believe that you just forgot to put the LFR changes in the patch notes is a little bit insulting. Are we really to believe that you just overlooked adding such a big change to the notes? You're one of the best game design companies in the world running the most successful MMO in history. Patch notes are something that you have a pretty good handle on. If there's a large (potentially upsetting) change missing from the notes I have to believe that its ommission was intentional.

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