Suggestion: LFR loot

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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Zaxan you should read this

http://balkothsword.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-ring-vendor-on-optional.html

it shuts you down rather nicely.
no it does not - it just says that some raiding guilds are too impatient or lack the time to wait to gear up from raid drops and only accept players in their raiding guilds who are willing to gear up outside of raiding in order to...raid...as fast as that particular guild has time/wants to raid...

their personal lack of time/patience does not mean i have to get gear outside of raids in order to raid if i dont want to and if i have the skill and time to rely on just raiding gear then i just won't join those particular types of raiding guilds, is all.
12/01/2012 08:35 PMPosted by Zaxan
their personal lack of time/patience does not mean i have to get gear outside of raids in order to raid if i dont want to and if i have the skill and time to rely on just raiding gear then i just won't join those particular types of raiding guilds, is all.


I absolutely agree, but in a slightly different manner. See, I was going to join a guild, but then they demanded I gem and enchant my items.

Their personal lack of time/patience does not mean I have to get gems/enchants outside of raids in order to raid if I don't want to and if I have the skill and time to rely on just unenchanted/ungemmed gear then I just won't join those particular types of raiding guilds, is all.

Then I was going to join this other guild, but then they demanded I use flasks and food.

Their personal lack of time/patience does not mean I have to get flasks/food outside of raids in order to raid if I don't want to and if I have the skill and time to rely on just my own gear then I just won't join those particular types of raiding guilds, is all.

Then a third guild tried to recruit me, but then they demanded my character wear pants.

Their personal lack of time/patience does not mean I have to get pants outside of raids in order to raid if I don't want to and if I have the skill and time to rely on just my own pantless gear then I just won't join those particular types of raiding guilds, is all.

Thank you for supporting my decisions, Zaxan, it warms my heart.
Also Zaxan, you failed to read option B in my OP, which would keep things exactly the same way they are right now for the people you are arguing on behalf of.

B - When a boss dies allow you to pick which spec (out of all of them, you shouldn't have to have it as one of your current specs to get loot for it if you play all three specs, you didn't with the old loot system.) you want loot for, although this will still make us run LFR, it gets rid of the annoying mickeymouse spec runaround and lets me just queue everything as healer, fixes the issue that the new loot system created, and gets the mindnumbing over with much much faster.


(this also has an additional benefit of giving no incentive to queuing for any one role over the others, meaning people with no playstyle preference will gravitate towards the one with the lowest queue time if they have the option to, and shorten queues for everyone by putting more people in the in demand role, the only reason I queue dps is because I have to in order to gear it, I'd much rather queue healer.)
12/02/2012 12:20 AMPosted by Balkoth
I have to get gems/enchants outside of raids
you cant get gems inside raids at this point in the expansion...they dont drop from raids (gems prolly will by the end of the expansion, however)...you CAN get raiding gear from raids since raiding gear DOES drop from raids...

and if i am skilled enough to raid with just the gear that drops from raiding, and i have alot of time to raid or i have the patience to wait for raid gear to drop then those are the kind of players i would prefer to play with - skilled players like myself with alot of time to raid and have the patience to wait for raid gear to drop...i wouldn't want to join a guild of either less skilled players then myself with either not alot of time to raid or do nothing but complain about all the options they choose to do to satiate their impatience of waiting for raid gear to drop...

im still not sure why your kind want gear up so fast...? what exactly are you going to do once you are completely geared up? or when you down the last boss that is currently on live? (if you are just the progression type and not BiS type) that requires such speed in gearing/progressing?
you cant get gems and ready made enchants inside raids...they dont drop from raids (gems prolly will by the end of the expansion, however)...you CAN get raiding gear from raids since raiding gear DOES drop from raids...


Fair point, regardless of who is right on this issue, it only concerns option A, option B will make both of us happy, would it not?
12/02/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Mistabings
you cant get gems and ready made enchants inside raids...they dont drop from raids (gems prolly will by the end of the expansion, however)...you CAN get raiding gear from raids since raiding gear DOES drop from raids...


Fair point, regardless of who is right on this issue, it only concerns option A, option B will make both of us happy, would it not?
i have always supported gearing up your character, not just one spec at a time, regardless of which spec you prefer to play at the time - imo, you worked to make the gear drop and you CAN immediately use it if you want to, so there is no reason at all, besides deciding to let someone else have it because you want to make them happy, to pass up an equal chance to win it and use it if you want to

the one spec at a time thing came from progression raiding guilds that played with the same players the entire time they raided - gearing up one spec of each player in the raid allowed the raid to progress faster - again, it was all about time, wanting to get to the current final boss as fast as possible...i still dont understand why getting to the current final boss as fast as possible is something players want other then server/world firsts...but they do...i guess i can understand it if like RL is going to cut into your playtime and you can not raid the entire expansion, meaning in order to be able to get to the last boss before it becomes irrelevant, grabbing gear outside of raids to help speed up your gearing process would help ensure it happens before becoming irrelevant...other then that, i dont get it...

all this, of course, does not mean i want blizzard to take away the option to get gear outside of raids - options are a good thing, they allow players to play the game that otherwise might not be able to - in turn, however, i dont want the options i enjoy taken out of the game as well, so i can continue to enjoy playing the game ^_^
12/02/2012 01:41 AMPosted by Zaxun
you cant get gems inside raids at this point in the expansion...they dont drop from raids (gems prolly will by the end of the expansion, however)...you CAN get raiding gear from raids since raiding gear DOES drop from raids...


Whoa now. Before, you were claiming anything you didn't *need* to kill the boss (aka, anything besides gear that dropped in the raid itself) was optional. Now are you trying to claim there's two different types of optional?

Optional 1: Stuff that can only be gotten outside of raids - Flasks, food, gems, enchants

Optional 2: Stuff that you can also get in raids - LFR gear, valor gear, conquest gear

And you see this as an important distinction why? Also, please grant us your wisdom:

Is 300 stat food optional? How about 275? How about 250? How about using 200 Mastery vendor food?

Or what about enchants? Can I use a +1 stam enchant on my chest or is the current best one mandatory? Is using Windsong over the River's Song/Jade Spirit/Dancing Steel for cost reasons optional, or are the better enchants mandatory?

How are you determining what's optional and what's mandatory?

12/02/2012 01:41 AMPosted by Zaxun
im still not sure why your kind want gear up so fast...? what exactly are you going to do once you are completely geared up? or when you down the last boss that is currently on live? (if you are just the progression type and not BiS type) that requires such speed in gearing/progressing?


Recruitment. If we lose someone due to RL changes or something, we need to be able to recruit a capable replacement. Which means we need a good ranking. Which means we need to kill the bosses as quickly as possible for a ranking high enough to attract the recruits we need.

12/02/2012 02:03 AMPosted by Zaxun
all this, of course, does not mean i want blizzard to take away the option to get gear outside of raids - options are a good thing, they allow players to play the game that otherwise might not be able to - in turn, however, i dont want the options i enjoy taken out of the game as well, so i can continue to enjoy playing the game ^_^


Speaking of "options", what are your thoughts on the matter of the ring vendor? You indicated you read my post on the blog, yes?
12/02/2012 01:41 AMPosted by Zaxun
im still not sure why your kind want gear up so fast...? what exactly are you going to do once you are completely geared up? or when you down the last boss that is currently on live? (if you are just the progression type and not BiS type) that requires such speed in gearing/progressing?


First of all I am the BiS type, and second of all with the slow speed my guild typically clears content, I run the risk of not clearing it at all, so I have to bring every advantage to the table I can.
12/03/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Balkoth
How are you determining what's optional
as in there are OPTIONAL ways to GET the gear

- there is an OPTION to just get the gear by raiding...there is also an OPTION to get gear outside of raids...there are OPTIONS in how to get gear to raid with, and only ONE way is mandatory in order to raid, not ALL of options...

yes, in order to begin raiding, one MUST get gear - you have the OPTIONS to get the gear to begin raiding via scenarios, heroics, dailies, crafting (although there is not enough crafting gear to meet iLv yet)

- not ALL of those options are NEEDED in order to begin raiding, just ONE of the OPTIONS to get gear is all that is NEEDED (other then just crafting gear) UNLESS you lack skill or time

then, once you have geared up to begin raiding, you have the OPTION to JUST raid for more gear to continue raiding and the OPTION to run LFR for more gear to continue raiding and the OPTION to do dailies for more gear to continue raiding and the OPTION to kill world bosses for more gear to continue raiding (although there is not enough world boss gear to meet iLv yet)...

not ALL of those OPTIONS to get gear to continue to raid are NEEDED in order to continue to raid, just ONE of the OPTIONS to get gear to continue to raid is all that is NEEDED (other then just world boss gear) UNLESS you lack skill or time
Speaking of "options", what are your thoughts on the matter of the ring vendor? You indicated you read my post on the blog, yes?


12/01/2012 08:35 PMPosted by Zaxan
it just says that some raiding guilds are too impatient or lack the time to wait to gear up from raid drops and only accept players in their raiding guilds who are willing to gear up outside of raiding in order to...raid...as fast as that particular guild has time/wants to raid..
and that's fine - different strokes for different folks - but if i do not lack time and have patience, i wouldn't play with guilds such as those, i would play with guilds that also do not lack time and have patience
12/03/2012 07:53 PMPosted by Mistabings
with the slow speed my guild typically clears content, I run the risk of not clearing it at all, so I have to bring every advantage to the table I can.
then you should be GLAD for the additional time-saving options in getting gear besides just waiting on RNG to love you while raiding...otherwise you run the risk, as you say, of running out of time to get BiS before the content becomes irrelevant...
12/01/2012 07:17 PMPosted by Zaxan
some decisions that should be made for the betterment of the game
Forcing players to stop doing something they enjoy and have time to do is NEVER going to be better for the game, UNLESS they are a very small minority.

And only Blizzard can figure that out.


so your argument is that the majority of hardmode raiders do enjoy LFR? I'm sure there are a few but i don't think ive ever met one and they certainly aren't the majority.

LFR is not designed for hardmode raiders.
12/03/2012 08:44 PMPosted by Zachfu
the majority of hardmode raiders
hardmode raiders are not the majority of WoW players, let alone any percentage of them...

when i was talking about a majority, i was referring to ALL of the players in WoW being included to figure out a majority...

but again, you would run into the social issue of my very first post in this thread if LFR shared a lockout with normal and heroic mode raids
So have it only share with heroic lockouts. although i suspect a large portion of normal mode oriented players also dislike lfr.

even though i haven't really read the entire thread i don't think anyone is suggesting removing anyone's ability to do LFR if they want to. just removing the tangible benefits to doing it for players that are at a higher level than LFR.
12/03/2012 08:54 PMPosted by Zachfu
So have it only share with heroic lockouts. although i suspect a large portion of normal mode oriented players also dislike lfr.
they dont have to do LFR unless they are not skilled enough to clear normal/heroic raids without LFR gear - no one needs to force a player to stop doing something that is not required and no one should force a player to stop doing something they enjoy doing - since LFR is not required and you do not enjoy it, just stop doing it if you dont want to do it - your lack of willpower should not impede on others gameplay
So have it only share with heroic lockouts. although i suspect a large portion of normal mode oriented players also dislike lfr.
they dont have to do LFR unless they are not skilled enough to clear normal/heroic raids without LFR gear - no one needs to force a player to stop doing something that is not required


Im not going to continue to argue the semantics of this with you because you clearly dont understand how higher end raiding works. Doing LFR as a hardmode raid is technically a choice but functionally not.

The suggestion relieves a requirement that the overwhelming majority of high end players don't like while leaving people who do like LFR unaffected.
12/03/2012 08:58 PMPosted by Zachfu
you clearly dont understand how higher end raiding works.
you mean i dont care about any personal requirements some players prefer to impose upon themselves that are not required by the game
They are not required by the physical game of world of Warcraft, but are required by the meta game we are playing which is progression raiding.

The suggestion benefits tons and hurts no one.
12/03/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Zachfu
required by the meta game we are playing which is progression raiding.
LFR gear is not needed in order to progress in normal/heroic mode raids unless you are unskilled or lack time - and if you are unskilled or lack time, then making sure you can not get LFR gear means you can not progress in normal/heroic modes...

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