And Mistweavers get the kick (Part 2!)

Monk
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Its extremely hard to be a competitive healer now against holy paladins and disc priests in 10 man it is frustrating when I really can't do anything the entire fight except for when they f-up and forget to keep absorbs on the raid or tank. Since my healing comp equates to a holy paladin and a disc priest for 3 heal fights I am considering rolling a Resto shaman because at least they actually have CD's to help the raid when damage takes a spike for 15 sec.
12/03/2012 05:18 PMPosted by Dizzchi
Its extremely hard to be a competitive healer now against holy paladins and disc priests in 10 man it is frustrating when I really can't do anything the entire fight except for when they f-up and forget to keep absorbs on the raid or tank. Since my healing comp equates to a holy paladin and a disc priest for 3 heal fights I am considering rolling a Resto shaman because at least they actually have CD's to help the raid when damage takes a spike for 15 sec.

already started lvling mine

Silly part is even if they revert these mana changes shamans will still be better due to raid utility...

the only thing Monks had that no healers could bring was AoE healing range, which is only useful on garalon
Good thing I have a level 90 Resto Druid.

*sobs in the corner*
Im having a huge problem with keeping my mana up in raids. I cant heal a tank through hard hits because soothing mists got nerfed hard (enveloping mists needs to be buffed) and anytime I try to AOE heal the raid, I go oom too fast and cant generate enough Mana Tea.

This is a real problem and needs to be fixed, I hope Blizz is listening, Mistweavers have been getting nerfed every hotfix and ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!
Im having a huge problem with keeping my mana up in raids. I cant heal a tank through hard hits because soothing mists got nerfed hard (enveloping mists needs to be buffed) and anytime I try to AOE heal the raid, I go oom too fast and cant generate enough Mana Tea.

This is a real problem and needs to be fixed, I hope Blizz is listening, Mistweavers have been getting nerfed every hotfix and ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!

Good news everyone! life cocoon is now twice as strong!
If Life Cocoon had a shorter cooldown it would be better...
Im having a huge problem with keeping my mana up in raids. I cant heal a tank through hard hits because soothing mists got nerfed hard (enveloping mists needs to be buffed) and anytime I try to AOE heal the raid, I go oom too fast and cant generate enough Mana Tea.

This is a real problem and needs to be fixed, I hope Blizz is listening, Mistweavers have been getting nerfed every hotfix and ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!

Good news everyone! life cocoon is now twice as strong!


See? Blizzard does listen!

Grumblegumblegrumble.
12/03/2012 06:48 PMPosted by Kungfuschia
If Life Cocoon had a shorter cooldown it would be better...


Isn't the cooldown just 2 minutes?
its still only half a tanks health at about 400k so it will still get hit off in 3 hits about instead of 1
12/03/2012 08:13 PMPosted by Dizzchi
its still only half a tanks health at about 400k so it will still get hit off in 3 hits about instead of 1


Yeah, and in span of those three hits, the tank is taking NO damage and has super-powered HoTs rolling off of it. Not just the Monk's HoTs mind you, but EVERY HoT that hits the tank while Life Cocoon is up.
27 pages long and not a single blue post, after one of the largest nerfs they've thrown at any given class or spec in years that I can remember. Sad. Maybe they'll take notice when nearly every mistweaver at top tier changes classes.
If anything I think the Life Cocoon change pretty clearly states that they have looked at monks since the 30% nerf and are moving on because they are fine with it.
My mana was terrible tonight on fights with lots of aoe damage. And I really think its sad that blizzard has not given any real reason as to why they made such an excessive change. I do think we were OP pre-patch, and the actual changes from the patch weren't too terrible. The hotfix to mana costs is just ridiculous.

I just don't get how they could make such a big change without testing it on the ptr first.
Getting trashed in raids by the guilds Holy Paladin with a 5 point diff in ilvl. Used to shine on Elagon and even there he's overtaken me, or rather I've fallen back quite a bit.

For the first time I'm sad I didn't level my shaman instead of picking this class up. I'd switch back we hadn't spent all this time getting me to gear on this character.

I know Blizz didn't want another DK scenario, but it seems they have left MW's and the class in general in the lurch of mediocrity or worse.
The worst part about this mana nerf on top of our aggregious throughput nerfs last patch, is that even before the mana nerfs, holy paladins and disc priests were already beating us for throughput. Even if we had unlimited mana, they were still pulling better or equivalent numbers to us, BUT, they also bring great raid cds that we simply do not bring. Blessing of sac, blessing of protection, aura mastery, pain suppression, power word barrier and hymn of hope are not insignificant advantages that paladins and priests have over us, they are crucial raid cds that every other class has to some degree, but monks lack completely.

The fact that monks have the worst raid cds of any healer has been completely lost in this bumbling attempt at balancing the class that blizzard is currently doing, so our problems go much deeper than just raw HPS numbers. Even if they revert our mana changes and we go back to infinite mana pools, holy pallies and disc priests will still dominate us in the numbers, and every other healer will still bring better utility.

We're in a much bigger hole right now than simple mana nerfs, these are just the icing on the cake.

I don't see how it's so hard to fix the unlimited mana situation for monks, just revert the crit changes from 5.1 and we'd be back to about where we were in 5.0 mana wise, which is to say, perfectly fine. Soothing mists would be generating better, cheaper, more reliable chi, but our spells would all be 10% more expensive to compensate. How did they even come to this conclusion than buffing our mana costs to the moon would be a good idea, when our "new" mana regen mechanic is an RNG-based chance to generate extra mana tea charges?
12/04/2012 01:28 AMPosted by Necrovane
The worst part about this mana nerf on top of our aggregious throughput nerfs last patch, is that even before the mana nerfs, holy paladins and disc priests were already beating us for throughput.


not in 25m
12/04/2012 01:34 AMPosted by Venur
The worst part about this mana nerf on top of our aggregious throughput nerfs last patch, is that even before the mana nerfs, holy paladins and disc priests were already beating us for throughput.


not in 25m

i do fine in 10m, usually either equal or up to 10% higher than my guilds holy paladin in healing and we are equally geared (5.1 pre hotfix)
Just wanted to point out, Blizzard pretty much never posts in class forums and I'm not sure if they read them either. If you want a better chance of info like this being seen, Healing forums might be a better option.
12/04/2012 01:34 AMPosted by Venur
The worst part about this mana nerf on top of our aggregious throughput nerfs last patch, is that even before the mana nerfs, holy paladins and disc priests were already beating us for throughput.


not in 25m


Way to quote-mine the first half of the paragraph while ignoring the second half. Assuming you are correct, and world of logs post 5.1 tends to disagree with you overall, us beating disc priests and holy paladins slightly while having 0 utility, while they put out both amazing numbers AND have great utility, monks having unlimited mana in 5.1 initially was hardly what blizz should have been concerned with to the degree of knee-jerk nerfing us into oblivion, which was the point of my post; monk mana efficiency was hardly trivializing any heroic mode progression bosses the way stacking raid CDs and holy paladin tank healers does.

Us beating other healers by 5-10%, and having 0 utility, still means we're not in a great spot. Us beating other healers by a huge margin, like in 5.0, put us in a great spot, even if we had crap for CDs, but now that we're behind or very slightly ahead, and have no utility, we're in more trouble than simply having mana problems post hotfix.

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