40 VP per boss isn't enough

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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I honestly feel like they are forcing us to do LFR on purpose. Hell, 99% of the groups im in its a handful of raiders completely carrying the others. I HATE LFR with a burning, fiery passion. The people are complete idiots, and it is NOT my idea of "fun and interesting gameplay".

Dailys...well they should not be mandatory outside of reputation gains and coins when your stockpile eventually dwindles down. Being able to fully clear 16/16 heroic or normal should cap your valor 110%.

Dailys are not fun. Five man heroics are not fun. LFR is not fun. None of these are "interesting gameplay". I play to raid. Thats it. Raid.
my reaction was way better, nery. get on my level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12/05/2012 09:12 AMPosted by Nery
in before 10-man freakout


Hardly. I'd be fine with 25 man giving 75 valor each, or even 100 valor each. I would like to see 50 valor for 10 man, though.

Right now, assuming a 10 man has 12 players and 25 man has 30 players (20% extra, it's actually often slightly higher), and assuming everyone rotates completely equally, you're looking at 533 average valor per week for all 16 bosses. Up that to 50 for 10 mans and you get 666. Make 25 mans 75 and it would be exactly 1000 valor on average. Could even up to 100 to practically guarantee a 25 man raider caps.

Could also do something like 3 lesser charms per boss for 25 man and 1 lesser charm per boss for 10 man.
12/05/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Balkoth
Right now, assuming a 10 man has 12 players and 25 man has 30 players (20% extra, it's actually often slightly higher), and assuming everyone rotates completely equally, you're looking at 533 average valor per week for all 16 bosses. Up that to 50 for 10 mans and you get 666. Make 25 mans 75 and it would be exactly 1000 valor on average.

In my history of 25s (from BC to Cata) I've never been in a 25 man raid that consistently has 30+ raiders night in and night out. Usually G7 might have some people at the start of a tier, but that never lasts and G6 is never full for a majority of it.

Not saying anything in favor or against more VP to 25s (honestly don't care who gets more but I think it should be increased all around) just saying I don't really agree with your numbers.
I'm confused by what you mean by "night in and night out." I'm talking about the total raiding roster, and 30ish was typical for my guild in BC (because people miss nights, need different number of healers, certain specs/classes are better, etc).

I don't know what you mean by G6 or G7 having people in it. Are you saying you have more than 10 or 25 people in the raid at any given time? Why in the world would you do that?
G6 = extras G7 = extras+5

Most guilds I raided with when I did 25 mans invited everyone to raid at the start, and put those who were 'in' in groups 1-5. If you weren't being used you'd be put in group 6-8. You didn't have to stay, but people usually would just tab out/go afk/log to another toon.
12/05/2012 10:23 AMPosted by Dysheki
In my history of 25s (from BC to Cata) I've never been in a 25 man raid that consistently has 30+ raiders night in and night out. Usually G7 might have some people at the start of a tier, but that never lasts and G6 is never full for a majority of it.


We do. 30 including recruits is a relatively light night for our mandatory progression nights.
oh man we barely have 30 it's hilarious sometimes, but we did get a few recruits recently! they look good too so far :D
12/05/2012 11:40 AMPosted by Tsilyi
oh man we barely have 30 it's hilarious sometimes, but we did get a few recruits recently! they look good too so far :D


Cwarush is pro imo
Again, this was my own personal history. Not saying all guilds are like mine, but not saying all guilds are like yours as well. It would be a difficult number to really calculate and everyone would be better off going through absolute numbers (just use 25 people for 25s, 10 for 10s) rather than guess how many people guilds actually have on their roster.

Previously I was on a dead server. No way to really get too many new people worth a damn and it was difficult to get people to transfer to a dead server. So to even have a group 7 at any point in time was a slight miracle.

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/dalvengyr

Yeah.
I'm confused by what you mean by "night in and night out." I'm talking about the total raiding roster, and 30ish was typical for my guild in BC (because people miss nights, need different number of healers, certain specs/classes are better, etc).

I don't know what you mean by G6 or G7 having people in it. Are you saying you have more than 10 or 25 people in the raid at any given time? Why in the world would you do that?

Forgot to respond to this. Basically what Dayuv said. Everyone was invited, groups 1-5 were in, everyone else is 'sat'.
12/05/2012 12:00 PMPosted by Dysheki
http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/dalvengyr


wow. just wow. that's all.
12/05/2012 01:55 AMPosted by Ðemolition
That being said my guild raids on monday (which blows) because if i want to valor cap for the week and i'm short monday it sucks


???

I see you've cleared all 16 bosses.

So you know exactly how much valor you're getting.

Even if you didn't, you're a tank, you can valor cap in 2-3 hours tops chaining heroics (from scratch, let alone raiding / daily valor from the week)


I sit for the first 3 bosses in HoF usually (mostly because i don't want to do them lol and the first boss only needs one tank), i try to get out of MSV as much as possible because it's kinda boring and people do the "it's farm night" and cause wipes by zoning out and watching tv and dying to things.

Terrace we do ok on, but Amber shaper and Empress we've yet to kill on 25 so it's a bit hard to count exactly what i need to have as far as valor goes
12/05/2012 12:27 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/dalvengyr


wow. just wow. that's all.


Damn. And I thought our server was dead..
Agreed. It really isn't fun running a bunch of LFR/5 mans, and scenarios that I've done to death before, (or in the case of lfr, done on the real difficulty) or doing dailies when I don't need the rep items and have a ton of extra coins.

Maybe what they could do is:

Set normal mode to give 50 vp per. This would bring you to 750 for a full clear and only 3 daily dungeons or LFRs away from capping for the week.

Set heroic bosses to drop 75 vp each. This would cap you for a full heroic T14 clear, and it would mean that every new heroic boss you get down between 14/14N and 14/14H is giving additional benefits by slowly reducing what you need to cap.

For instance, my guild has 4 heroic bosses down, so those bosses plus a full clear would put me at 200vp away from cap, meaning I can do one less thing outside of raiding.

If this week we killed one more heroic boss, that would put me at 175 from cap. Now I'm within 2 LFRs of capping for the week.

I think this would be a good system that would help reduce what you have to do if you're good at the game while not completely devaluing other game elements.

EDIT: Math is completely borked because I was running on the original 14 boss number, but you get the idea... just scale up as appropriate.
12/05/2012 01:37 PMPosted by Darthelm
Set heroic bosses to drop 75 vp each. This would cap you for a full heroic T14 clear, and it would mean that every new heroic boss you get down between 14/14N and 14/14H is giving additional benefits by slowly reducing what you need to cap.


I feel like doing Herioc bosses should more-than-put you over the cap as there is so much time investment to killing them that often times you might end up doing less bosses in a week if it means getting a heroic kill.
12/05/2012 10:52 PMPosted by Poena
Set heroic bosses to drop 75 vp each. This would cap you for a full heroic T14 clear, and it would mean that every new heroic boss you get down between 14/14N and 14/14H is giving additional benefits by slowly reducing what you need to cap.


I feel like doing Herioc bosses should more-than-put you over the cap as there is so much time investment to killing them that often times you might end up doing less bosses in a week if it means getting a heroic kill.


The thing is, the idea is to make it easier on raiders as you do better and better and still not devalue other valor acquisition methods. If you could valor cap with like half the heroic bosses down, then you're reaching the point where your extra effort stops yielding extra rewards far too quickly.
12/07/2012 03:11 PMPosted by Darthelm
The thing is, the idea is to make it easier on raiders as you do better and better and still not devalue other valor acquisition methods. If you could valor cap with like half the heroic bosses down, then you're reaching the point where your extra effort stops yielding extra rewards far too quickly.


If you have half the Heroic bosses down, there is nothing quick about that accomplishment. You have put in a very significant amount of time to get those bosses down.
Not only that, but you won't be in for all 16 bosses anyway (for 90% of people) and you might not be clearing all 16 bosses each week.

Currently my guild doesn't even have time to clear Heroic MSV each week, we'd lose too much progression time.
12/05/2012 12:00 PMPosted by Dysheki
http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/dalvengyr


Well, Dalvengyr was destined to fail. It was a server created to try to balance out realm population. I was on Whisperwind when it created, and they allowed free xfers to it. I got off that server pretty quick (like in TBC) on my main, and my shaman eventually left there in early Naxx days.

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