Well? Fire Mages.

Who raided as fire last night and what were your findings?

How were your placements on fights?

Things like my DPS went down a 100k from last week tell us nothing, so try and avoid posting it.
last or close to it..still downed bosses though and beat enrage timers..

i did see a pretty big difference though ( on one fight i didn't get one proc while time warp was up)
Down 15-18% across the board from last week.

Incidentally all of Blood Legion's mages ran arcane this week.
Garalon my bread and butter for DPS I was dead last with an amazing 27% crit on my fireball which should of been around 38% even with the nerf. It's time go to the wardrobe, take the mothballs out of the pockets, dust off the shoulders and hem the belt line of my old Arcane Robes. Oh I sort of missed you arcane. How many classes can DPS one handed while you do what ever you want with the other hand. The days of the Lazy DPS have arrived and we will not be seeing the top of DPS for the duration. Sit back smoke a bowl and just be glad you still have a raid spot.
12/05/2012 09:51 AMPosted by Wexler
Down 15-18% across the board from last week.

How did you place?
Middle of the road. But I was uncontested top dps last week.
Trash DPS isn't DPS

Here's what I suspect will emerge once the dust settles: fights will become more spec specific.

The problem here is the variance between spec performance, and fire's reliance on a secondary stat that the other specs don't want. You can't just say, ok, I'll go fire for Stone Guards and Arcane for the rest unless you want to be gimped in one spec or the other. With the CM nerf, it's even more important to stack sky high crit for Fire. But Arcane doesn't want crit at all. So unless you want to reforge and regem between every fight (which is an option, though an extremely expensive and time-consuming one), you pretty much have to pick one and stick with it.
Posted in another thread:

I went from fluctuating in the top 3 on Elegon in our previous attempts (read: prior to the nerfs) to a shocking 8th (out of 10) i.e. just above the tanks in our attempts last night. I was horrified at our first attempt when I saw my overall damage hover around 60k DPS (when I would normally be much, much higher than that), and figured I had somehow managed to press the wrong buttons and eff up my rotation. No sweat, I thought, let's do it right this time. 2nd attempt, I was stunned; 3rd attempt I was feeling nauseous; 4th attempt I was downright laughing. By the 5th try, I was apologizing profusely to my guildmates and we had to take a 20min break while I re-talented to Frost, re-gemmed and reforged. Of course, the last time I PvE'd as Frost was back in vanilla, so I wasn't burning up the meters - however, I managed to fat-finger my way to a sustained 80-85k DPS on subsequent attempts and downed him shortly thereafter. Granted, I didn't place in the top 3 (moreso a reflection of my fumbling around vs. any fault of the spec), but wow, what an eye-opener (and that was an ilvl of over 485).
meanwhile in the rest of the world...

Answer to the OP (haven't read the rest):

I'm in a progression guild and we recently cleared MV as a team (damn Elegon was a show stopper but we got him now). It's been what now, 4 or 5 weeks since we started and when I started I was in 471 gear (I'm now at 484).

I'll keep things short... Last week was by best week ever and this week was my worst ever. So in my 484 gear now, I am doing worse than I was 5 weeks ago in 471 gear. I did an overall average of 40k in a full MV clear last night, I'm used to 60-70k. Last week I did 80k or so average.

I'm not a whiner, but they clearly overdid it. I don't know what they did to crits, but I've had very very long streaks without crits and building even a half-descent combustion was next to impossible. Most of my PoM/AT combos have been useless at building a combustion even worth casting so I've been holding off way too much on them... and even when I do use my combustion out of impatience, the results aren't even worth talking about. Not even sure it's worth the global cooldown anymore most of the time.

So all in all, I am extremely concerned about the state of fire mages right now. It sucks because it was a PITA to master for me and now I feel like I'm in all blues again. I'll probably have to respec but it sucks cause all my gear, gems, enchants, reforges are all optimized for fire now....
12/05/2012 11:28 AMPosted by Kreayshawn

Yes those are literally the very luckiest parses in the whole world, with the best gear. Fire will still own the top parses because of crit scaling and just pure luck, but for those of us not rocking full 4pT14H gear, we are hurting.

If there's a spec with more fight to fight variance between high and low dps than Fire, I'd like to see it.
meanwhile in the rest of the world...


Fire has a lot of variance due to reliance on crits. Not surprisingly a fire mage who has a very lucky run of crits will score higher than just about any other class getting the same run of luck. This leads to a lot of the top parses being fire.

That said, probably all of those parses are from pre-nerf. Post-nerf even with good luck, fire can't compete.
Not sure if its due to a little higher ilvl, but i found that the nerf to fire was servere, but not enough to make it unplayable. Before 5.1 i was doing decent and ranking 1st dps on some fights which was mostly depentdent on RNG and whether i got off good combusts when I needed to.

After 5.1 pre-nerf, combustion was just stupid, ranked 1st for dps for HoF on almost all fight without even trying. Combustions hit 40k+ when I did not even line up cds and yea dps went through the roof and fire mages were insanely OP. My max combust was around 70k on a normal fight (hit 90k on garalon).

Raided in the new nerfed fire mage today and the different is significant. No matter how hard I try my max combust did not even past 25k and that is indicative of the poor dps. Crit was significantly lower and reminded me alot of the old days of fire where you could go through burn phases and time warp and pot and get maybe 0 or 1 crit throughout the duration. Basically, my crit feels as if as I was in fresh heroic dungeon gears getting into raid. .25% really hurts alot.

However, it is still viable, still doing a decent 75k+ on most fights (120k on elegon was the only dps i remembered since it was the only fight i topped), ilvl 488. Would I still stay fire? Probably, but only due to the fact that I think they will be another hotfix reducing the nerf due to the crying from the community. If not, I think its really viable to spec into arcane. Frost isn't that bad too if you gear specifically for it and have a perfect rotation
meanwhile in the rest of the world...


That said, probably all of those parses are from pre-nerf. Post-nerf even with good luck, fire an't compete.

A casual scroll through some of those dates shows that in fact, many/all are before the hot fix that was implemented on the 29th.
DD forum thread collecting post-nerf parses:
Agreed with the logs and prases. I hate how the community looks at logs and flatout deem firemages as OP. We scale heavily with gear level and most logs are those mages with just a lucky streak of crits. Given a sample size of around maybe 5000 raiding mages, its statistically easy to have 10 mages getting ~80% of fireballs as crits even when their gear allows for say 50% worth of crits, just due to RNG. Those mages would do well on that fight but only on that particular encounter, if you brought him in again and log with the exact same conditions he can easily do 10k - 20k dps less.

Fire mages have always been nerfed by looking at the top players with full heroic gears progressing and smashing normal modes for fun and they would obviously do insane dps. Happened when legendary staff was out and all mages smashed charts and we subsequently got a nerf to the whole class, just to cater to those high end raiding mages.

Blizzard was meant to be moving in the casual direction, don't balance us around the top tier raiding mages. I'm sure there are many ways to target specifically the higher ended mages, by capping crit rate or whatsoever means. When you blanket nerf combustion damage by 50% and reduce our crit by ~7% overnight, all the mages suffers, including those with low ilvl and working on progression and enrage timers. Many mages are going to have to spec different with all new gear and hope they dont get benched.

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