Ignoring Haste "Caps" in favor of crit; when?

Druid
As most of us know, theoretically Balance druids should be shooting for the established Haste breakpoints. I'm not going to dive into numbers, because they are all in the sticky 2 inches above this post.

But recently numerous high-level doomkins have been suggesting that favoring crit through gems/reforging is the way to go, and just roll with the natural haste on our gear. This thread is pointed at druids who have tried both, and what they would suggest;

Worth it to favor crit, and ignore breakpoints? At what ilvl? For specific encounters? For those of us who have access to 496+ gear, is there any reason to ever shoot for 4-piece AND 8089 haste?
Would you sacrifice 7% crit for an extra DOT tick (which gets reapplied anyways).

Zoomkins~
Crit actually gives you,

Extra dot ticks on your eclipsed dot and non eclipsed dot which can proc multiple times
Extra starsurge procs which are 20 energy
Extra damage from things like skull banner
multitudes of SS's during cooldown which is your hardest hitting DPE

Haste gives you

Extra dot tick x1, and only one
Slightly faster cast times


Which is absolutely correct.

Pretty much this entire tier (heroic at least) is Multi-target. I've been running Crit since 480ilvl, others a bit later.
12/05/2012 12:40 PMPosted by Kullttirass
But recently numerous high-level doomkins have been suggesting that favoring crit through gems/reforging is the way to go, and just roll with the natural haste on our gear. This thread is pointed at druids who have tried both, and what they would suggest;

So, yeah.

I was big on haste for a while. I've more or less totally gotten on the crit bandwagon. I'm still contemplating how exactly to explain things in the sticky. But here are my thoughts.

Early on, I really liked the haste set up. I actually tried crit at very low gear levels and saw pretty crappy results in terms of SS procs. I felt like speeding up the rotation felt better for me, regardless of haste break points and what not. It wasn't necessarily about max DPS output more than making sure I felt comfortable with my rotation while learning the new parts of it (CDs, mostly) and learning new encounters.

But, what Cyous posted above is what it really comes down to. The majority of this tier (and almost all of the difficult encounters) involve multiple targets, high movement, or both. Both those things favor crit, and both are difficult to simulate well.

My advice to people who are not in cutting edge guilds is try out different set ups and find what works for you. Haste break point v crit is still very close for *most* fights. It took me a few weeks to get used to the crit build, but now I feel comfortable with it. it's hard to say if I'm actually doing a lot better or not with it, since I've also been getting a lot of new gear along the way, but I know it helped a lot with Garalon and H Stone Guard.

12/05/2012 12:40 PMPosted by Kullttirass
For those of us who have access to 496+ gear, is there any reason to ever shoot for 4-piece AND 8089 haste?

4pc is nice, but don't downgrade ilvls for it (much like T13). 8089 is going to be when you're in mostly heroic gear. Until then, just keep the 3k-ish break point and go moar crit.
Whats a good starting crit rating to shoot for? I've reforged majority of my gear into crit and i'm just shy of 8k crit. Is that a decent amount? Should I strive for more?

I've really pushed going for the haste cap but now with more gear, I feel like I could push my numbers more. So I will be giving this a shot, for my raid tomorrow.
Whats a good starting crit rating to shoot for? I've reforged majority of my gear into crit and i'm just shy of 8k crit. Is that a decent amount? Should I strive for more?

I've really pushed going for the haste cap but now with more gear, I feel like I could push my numbers more. So I will be giving this a shot, for my raid tomorrow.

8k is pretty good, just keep going for more. Crit only gets better as you get more.
So should I ignore the 5273 haste breakpoint in favor of crit? And is there like a minimum amount of haste you wouldn't want to drop below if you were to ignore that?

I was tinkering with reforging before raid tonight and can pick up an extra 3-4% crit if I drop haste down to the t14 breakpoint. This is without re gemming.

Thoughts? Would much appreciate the help here, I've been wanting to try a crit setup for awhile, but didn't want my dps to drop substantially on a progression raid night.
Reforge everything humanly possible to crit while maintaining hit cap and never look back.
You guys stop making me consider dropping my 5273 haste breakpoint. You stop it right now! I'm amusing it's a marginal difference at this point. You are going to have to dump secondary points toward haste breakpoint eventually.
12/06/2012 04:29 AMPosted by Stratis
You guys stop making me consider dropping my 5273 haste breakpoint. You stop it right now! I'm amusing it's a marginal difference at this point. You are going to have to dump secondary points toward haste breakpoint eventually.


Join us Stratis...
we haz cookies
So should I ignore the 5273 haste breakpoint in favor of crit? And is there like a minimum amount of haste you wouldn't want to drop below if you were to ignore that?

I was tinkering with reforging before raid tonight and can pick up an extra 3-4% crit if I drop haste down to the t14 breakpoint. This is without re gemming.

Thoughts? Would much appreciate the help here, I've been wanting to try a crit setup for awhile, but didn't want my dps to drop substantially on a progression raid night.


Doing this, on multi-target fights or movement heavy you should see your dps go up.
I'm amusing...


I'm assuming that you're amusing too! :)

MoP: Crit 4 Lyfe!
To be fair, the breakpoint isn't bad.




Crit is just better.
But is it safe to go back to the haste breakpoint for single target fights? I'm going to give it a shot but I tried it the other night and I just wasn't getting many crits at all. :/ Not really sure why when I had 8.3k crit rating.

But for something like Garalon, would you suggest crit is the better option? Even if i'm one of the people kiting pheromones? Cause that's the fight i'm working on tonight.

Guess I just got so comfortable w/ the haste i'm struggling to make the switch right away. It feels so wrong getting rid of so much haste. xD
12/06/2012 03:07 PMPosted by Shikoku
But for something like Garalon, would you suggest crit is the better option? Even if i'm one of the people kiting pheromones? Cause that's the fight i'm working on tonight.

Garalon is like, the poster child of crit stacking. Even if you're kiting. Especially if you're kiting, actually.

What I found works really well is making mouseover macros for my dots, and using boss frames to dot the legs while always having the body target to dump SS procs into. I try not to have more than 4 or, at max, 5 dots running at a time. This means when there is more than 1 leg up I only apply the eclipsed dot to them. I'm getting pretty decent proc rates, though I definitely go through dry spells at time (I nerd rage whenever SS comes off of CD without having proc'd).

For kiting, you should be dotting whatever is in range of you, spamming your eclipsed dot, and using SS when you can.
So I tried the full crit setup tonight for our MSV clear and while the single target seemed a bit lower (nothing major), the movement and multi dots fight were freaking awesome.

Was a big help with burning adds and what not down quick. I got ~4% more crit after gems and reforge and it felt like SS procs were through the roof.

Thanks for the help :)
So I tried the full crit setup tonight for our MSV clear and while the single target seemed a bit lower (nothing major), the movement and multi dots fight were freaking awesome.

Was a big help with burning adds and what not down quick. I got ~4% more crit after gems and reforge and it felt like SS procs were through the roof.

Thanks for the help :)


NP buddy, I believe in a world where robots don't tell you what to do and people can use logic to see what happens in the real world applications (of warcraft).

Crit, that is all.

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