Why don't paladins have defensive stands?

Paladin
12/06/2012 10:50 AMPosted by Jamina
they have stances and we have seals


They also have the ability to shieldwall, and pop defensive stance and take close to zero damage. This is where that pesky "imbalance" word comes into play.

No class in warcraft can mathematically kill a warrior were they the last 2 standing in an arena match. Between second wind and their defensive abilities, it's just not possible. That's why warriors are dominating in arena right now; SEVERE imbalance.

But of course:

12/06/2012 10:20 AMPosted by Invincible
complete and utter misunderstanding of how PvP works


Stick to your guns!

This is how rated team play works. Your team identifies the weakest link and exploits said link. The weakest link in any comp with a warrior is not the warrior, the weakest link in every comp with a paladin is always the paladin.

Is this making sense yet?
12/06/2012 11:00 AMPosted by Invincible
Is this making sense yet?


Oh, sugarbear, are you not reading what I wrote? Here, I'll make some italics for you so you can pull out the meaning:

And balance and fairness are not the same thing as every class having the exact same tools. Again, this isn't World of Warriors. Different classes are different and should be different. The biggest issue with our inequality with warriors is that they are currently overpowered, not that they have stances and we have seals.
Oh, sugarbear, are you not reading what I wrote? Here, I'll make some italics for you so you can pull out the meaning:


You're incapable of understanding your own argument, well that makes sense.

12/06/2012 11:07 AMPosted by Jamina
The biggest issue with our inequality with warriors is that they are currently overpowered


Because:

12/06/2012 11:07 AMPosted by Jamina
they have stances


Now that's in the same sentence. How could you possibly miss that?
I can splice up your sentences and take out the negatives to say whatever I think you should be saying as well. But like I said, Warriors having stances and us having seals is NOT the issue. The issue is that Warriors are overpowered.

You really might have a reading comprehension problem. Wow. Didn't mean to open any wounds when I said that earlier.
Warriors aren't overpowered. They're actually fine at the moment.
12/06/2012 11:00 AMPosted by Invincible
No class in warcraft can mathematically kill a warrior were they the last 2 standing in an arena match. Between second wind and their defensive abilities, it's just not possible. That's why warriors are dominating in arena right now; SEVERE imbalance.


12/06/2012 11:15 AMPosted by Invincible
Warriors aren't overpowered. They're actually fine at the moment.


Oh, I get it. You just like to argue.
Paladins being bad doesn't make warriors good.
No class in warcraft can mathematically kill a warrior were they the last 2 standing in an arena match. Between second wind and their defensive abilities, it's just not possible. That's why warriors are dominating in arena right now; SEVERE imbalance.


While there are balance issues unresolved, the first part of your statement is ludicrously untrue. Or you have to check your math. Possibly both. Because warriors can be killed 1v1. I've done it, I've seen it done, it's an uphill battle particularly if you're evenly geared with them but it is far from as impossible as you claim.
I kill warriors all day long as well because most of them are bad and don't realize that they have a hilariously unfair way to cheat death (shield wall - second wind) the good, high rated warriors understand that their class isn't just "smash face until it dies".

No warrior should ever lose 1v1 to a paladin.

Or any other class for that matter.
No warrior should ever lose 1v1 to a paladin.

Or any other class for that matter.


12/06/2012 11:00 AMPosted by Invincible
No class in warcraft can mathematically kill a warrior were they the last 2 standing in an arena match. Between second wind and their defensive abilities, it's just not possible. That's why warriors are dominating in arena right now; SEVERE imbalance


So you're saying that warriors are imbalanced and dominating (or should be dominating) ALL other classes because ALL of the other classes are underpowered, but warriors are fine.

But it doesn't make sense to you to say that instead of this, warriors are actually the ones that are overpowered.

Yep. I'm sticking with you just like to argue.
So you're saying that warriors are imbalanced and dominating (or should be dominating) ALL other classes because ALL of the other classes are underpowered, but warriors are fine.

But it doesn't make sense to you to say that instead of this, warriors are actually the ones that are overpowered.

Yep. I'm sticking with you just like to argue.


You're grasping at straws.

Pretty much this. When I'm getting swarmed in PvE by accidentally overpulling some mobs, I switch from Truth to Inisght. I quit using Templar's Verdict and feed all my Holy Power into WoG. The regular parts of my rotation- using Holy Prism as an AoE / Selfless Healer on myself when it's full-proc'd remain the same (along with Hammer of the Righteous in lieu of Crusader Strike). I can generally pull around ten mobs at the Golden Stair doing that without endangering myself to where Divine Shield or Lay on Hands need to be invoked.
That works in this particular scenario for a specific reason - SoI can proc off every hit that HotR and DS make, so lots of mobs on you means lots of SoI procs, which combined with dropping to WoG spam allow massive pulls when out in the world. Being able to do this in no way reflects an amazing ability to heal through damage in PvP or when being an impromptu tank in instances.

My primary issues, neither of which require an actual stance mechanic to fix, are the lack of passive mitigation, making us more vulnerable to hard cc than just about anyone else, and being by far the worst emergency tank of the plate melee, as well as worse than Druids (okay, it's sort of their thing, so that's not so bad), and worse than Rogues.

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