MSV 4/6, where to next?

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
You can't be vague, ignoring KEY MECHANICS about the encounter, and then claim it's easy. You're both totally ignoring Protector mechanics and acting like it's unimportant, when it'll cause a wipe within the first 30 seconds of the boss... Nice.


These details are always missing in the 1 paragraph explanations you think exist for every boss other than elegon. You are right, I should have added one sentence to my explanation; Don't be a moron. If you go full retard of course you aren't going to understand.

Without being vague explain ambershaper in 2 lines or less to me. How about Grand empress? Sha of fear?
12/05/2012 10:39 AMPosted by Zionic
He's still the most complex boss in MoP right now.


I think I just choked a bit.
12/05/2012 05:46 AMPosted by Tarski
you can kill Will; it's not free loot, but it's definitely easier.


It most definitely is free loot on 10 man. If you can down Elegon, you can down Will easily unless you have the derpiest of the derps.
12/05/2012 08:37 AMPosted by Zionic
The fact that both Vizier and Blade Lord are easier than Elegon


I don't even understand why you're looking at the second to last boss, to a first and second boss. Especially when they have the same number of bosses.
12/05/2012 11:02 AMPosted by Naumu
I don't even understand why you're looking at the second to last boss, to a first and second boss. Especially when they have the same number of bosses.

Elegon drops 489 gear, Vizier/Blade Lord drop 496 gear?
It was about the issue of locking people from HoF until they clear MsV. Should people be prevented from entering HoF until they can kill WotE (and consequently Elegon).
12/05/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Zionic
Elegon drops 489 gear, Vizier/Blade Lord drop 496 gear?


And? like I said, it's the second to last boss, compared to the first and second - which by all accounts are jokes. And 99% of the time, they usually are.
12/05/2012 11:17 AMPosted by Naumu
And? like I said, it's the second to last boss, compared to the first and second - which by all accounts are jokes. And 99% of the time, they usually are.

If you don't have anything to say about a lock between MsV and HoF then we're talking about apples and oranges I'm afraid...
There is major *sigh*ing going on right now in my mind.
12/05/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Zionic
Elegon drops 489 gear, Vizier/Blade Lord drop 496 gear?


Elegon drops BiS trinkets and weapons, Vizier drops necks and bracers and stuff lol.

12/05/2012 11:25 AMPosted by Zionic
If you don't have anything to say about a lock between MsV and HoF then we're talking about apples and oranges I'm afraid...


It's unneeded.
12/05/2012 11:28 AMPosted by Platform
There is major *sigh*ing going on right now in my mind.

Because people are popping into the conversation and replying without any context and then getting confused when the replies don't make sense? I agree.
No, that wasn't what I had in mind at all.
12/05/2012 11:25 AMPosted by Zionic
If you don't have anything to say about a lock between MsV and HoF then we're talking about apples and oranges I'm afraid...


The fact that you can't grasp what I'm saying speaks volumes.
12/05/2012 11:57 AMPosted by Naumu
The fact that you can't grasp what I'm saying speaks volumes.

I grasp that you're agreeing with something I already said... C'mon now.

Zionic:
Vizier and Blade Lord are easier than Elegon

Naumu:
it's the second to last boss, compared to the first and second - which by all accounts are jokes


I don't know how you want me to reply unless you just want me to say that we're agreeing on the same point. We're talking about putting a lock between MsV and HoF, which you haven't even said anything about.

The bosses are easier, yes. Which is why we're talking about the lock: Should people who can't kill Elegon have access to 'easier' 496 gear from Vizier and Blade Lord ? That's what we're discussing.

Now, that's out of the way... Do we want to discuss the same redundant things that are obvious to everyone or actually talk about how progression between raids should work? Up to you. If you don't have anything else to say, then just be aware that the first 2 bosses are indeed jokes compared to the last bosses of MsV. You are correct.
The thing you're not grasping, which is sad I'll have to actually spell it out for you in giant letters, is that you're trying to compare a not-so-pushover boss, to pushover bosses. ie; second to last, to first and second bosses in raids that have the same number of bosses, which by all accounts has been the same since for like.....ever? Do you want the answer as well? you can't compare them, it just doesn't even work in any way.

I personally think you should have to clear MSV to go on, but that's just me.
12/05/2012 05:30 AMPosted by Conneri
and our dps is not really ready for Elegon yet


well not with that attitude

you just have to have consistency and determination to figure out how it will work for your group remember just bc you watched a video of how someone kills something might not work well with your group you just have to find what way works for you.

good luck and have fun!
The bosses are easier, yes. Which is why we're talking about the lock: Should people who can't kill Elegon have access to 'easier' 496 gear from Vizier and Blade Lord ? That's what we're discussing.


Are you seriously trying to suggest that Vizier loot>Elegon loot? It's about more than just ilvl yanno..
And to think that I thought the whole point of raiding was to strategize with like-minded peers to tackle actual challenges.
See, if you wanted to list questions one could ask about a boss I think you could definitely ask far more questions about Amber Shaper than you ever could about Elegon :<

Elegon is fairly simple in terms of what to do.

Run in/out (or as ranged abuse the jump spot) to drop the stacking debuff while maintaining the damage buff all fight. Tank protectors in the bubble up till they begin to AoE tick (25%) and bring them out of it to keep the AoE manageable while maintaining boss dps. Split dps around the platform to make sure each orb dies and then kill 4-6 sets of the orbs to stack the damage buff on the boss to beat enrage. On the last set have everyone run out of the bubble after the orbs reach the tubes to stay alive. Keep the dps on the tube that their orbs went to to ensure they go down at about the same time to keep the # of little adds to a minimum while dodging the void zones. AoE the adds and then repeat from the top. Once the repeat is done you're in phase 3 where you just stack and kill the boss before he enrages (BURN ALL THE CDS.)

Or to make it simpler:

1) Don't stack your debuff too high
2) Kill protectors, move them out at 25%
3) Kill orbs and don't fall down the hole
4) Kill tubes
5) AoE the adds
6) Repeat 2-5 while always being aware of 1
7) Phase 3, where you stack & burn the boss

Each boss could be summed up in an equally simple or complicated way. For my part, I think teaching people how to drive on Amber Shaper is significantly more complicated than the entirety of the Elegon encounter >.>
Having bosses that are harder and easier in different positions of linear progression (In terms of the instances, to clarify) has always been around.


That doesn't mean a good idea. I think most people would prefer a choice of bosses; and those who want linear tend to be the elitist types ("I had to kill X before Y, and I don't want scrubs who can't kill X to see MY CONTENT!")

Heroic Ultraxion was a joke during Dragon Soul, where as Zon'ozz was more difficult. Spine was more difficult than Madness. Marrowgar was more difficult than Gunship...etc.


Others had different experiences.. I don't think I have ever been in a Marrowgar (10N) wipe, but have been through several Gunship wipes. At later nerf levels, H Ultraxion usually took several attempts as someone would fluff their button, but H Zon'ozz was usually a 1shot.

I really don't see how Elegon can be a difficult fight unless you seriously lack a decent amount of class knowledge, and/or using a bad raid strategy. It's very straightforward.


In terms of what the raiders are required to do, it's one of the least straightforward fights in the game (even though the list of mechanics is fairly short). Don't forget that every raid group isn't made up of 10 expert players. Typically there's some good, some average and some bad. Think of the worst melee dps you've ever raided with ; how long is it going to take you to train them to drop stacks properly and kill 4 sparks whilst maintaining high boss DPS?
12/05/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Autumni
how long is it going to take you to train them to drop stacks properly and kill 4 sparks whilst maintaining high boss DPS?


Shouldn't take many attempts before you figure out who you need to replace.

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