Ret PvP is PERFECT where it is...

Paladin
Im starting to get tired of hearing all this bull!@#$ about rets being underpowered. If you learn to play the class at all they are actually one of the more viable classes in pvp. Avenging wrath is probably one of the best overpowered cool downs in the game. stack that with holy avenger and guardian with the strength buff from guardian and besides warriors we do some of the best burst in the game with minimal setup time. (a couple of seconds for the guardian of kings strength buff to stack a bit). anyone with a brain (arena wise) would pick Fist of justice. Thats a 6 sec stun that doesn't break with a 30 sec cool down. in RBGs repentance can change the game (depending on the BG). i barely try and i top scoreboards in Random bgs all the time (ik that randoms don't matter). I know im only 1200 arena rating but that's with a partner in Contenders gear. if a paladin can carry contenders gear players to the 1000s than i don't see how they aren't good? i actually have soloed 2s matches before. And Ive only been playing my paladin since the last month of cata and i do good on him in bgs and arenas. i actually enjoy my paladin so much i decided to main him this expansion over my BM HUNTER that ive played since classic. so could someone please point out to me what it is that makes people think paladins are bad? Because i just don't see it.
You do realize that 1500 is the "default" rating, right? You're not carrying a partner to the 1000s, you're building MMR (if new to arenas) and initial rating. The system is designed to let you advance through quickly to whatever your MMR is - and it defaults to 1500 initially.

That being said, I don't believe we're as weak as people make us out to be, but we could use some help in the survivability department. I wouldn't mind having a bit more of my damage shifted out of cooldowns as well, or have the cooldowns on more meaningful timers than "Once, maybe twice a match," but I feel that's more a preference than an actual need for the spec.
In before:

"Ret is FINE"

"Ret is BALANCED"

"OTHER classes are OP"

"Ret SUCKS"

"Ret is WEAK"

"Ret is a SUPPORT SPEC, we don't just DPS"

"I quit because of Ret this XPAC"

"Ret Scales with gear, your gear sucks"

"My Ret is just fine, Lrn2play"

"I demolish people in Randoms"

"I demolish people in Raids"

"I demolish people in WPVP"

"I demolish people in Dungeons"

"I demolish people in Arena"

"I demolish people in Rated BG's"

"I demolish people in the AH"

"I demolish people in GS"

"Cookies"

"I top the Charts on MV LFR"

"I hate Mages"

"WPVP is Dead"

"Wow is DEAD"

"LOL, CAN'T BREAK 1650, LOL NOOB"

"Ret ate my baby"

and so on, and so forth. Did I miss any? Can we stop making these threads now?

Please?

And just so my post has a "Legit" point to it, I love my pally. I don't give a damn if I'm OP, or underpowered or whatever. I'm going to play my Paladin. That's all there is to it.

-Sat
You do realize that 1500 is the "default" rating, right? You're not carrying a partner to the 1000s, you're building MMR (if new to arenas) and initial rating. The system is designed to let you advance through quickly to whatever your MMR is - and it defaults to 1500 initially.


hm... are you talking about the same number as i am? Because whenever i make a team it starts at 0. i mean the rating not mmr. oh well im probably just too stupid to understand what you said.
LOL ^ hahaha
When arena was created, the starting ratings were 1500. Contrary to popular belief, especially from people on the higher end of ratings, most people didn't go up from there, they went down. The average rating during BC was actually low enough to the point where on point cap teams that ended seasons in the mid-1200's, I got challenger. Repeatedly.

MMR doesn't quite work the same way, but it also does default to 1500 if you've never played before or haven't played since it was reset during Cata... but again, most people don't actually go up from there. When you start a team, the team is at 0 but the people on it have hidden MMR, which you see in the bottom right when a match ends. At the start it's well above your team rating and so your team rating rapidly rises to match it, if you're winning. If you're losing your MMR will slowly fall until your team rating and MMR ratings are generally equal and you'll go from seeing 96 team rating on a win and 0 team rating for losing to being +/- 20 points.

In Cata ratings got pretty inflated and average teams were fairly close to that, but MoP drove ratings down pretty hard and they're still down quite a bit lower compared to last season. On some battlegroups 2200 teams are currently gladiator-level, and you start seeing serious competition to even get out of the 1500's.
Cayse, thank you for explaining that for the OP far better than I could.

Invincible, try having a little more sympathy for someone who obviously didn't understand how the ranking system works. God forbid someone want to try PvP (or even WoW) who hasn't before.
YOU SHALL NOT PASS YE WALL OF TEXT MORTAL
Im starting to get tired of hearing all this bull!@#$ about rets being underpowered. If you learn to play the class at all they are actually one of the more viable classes in pvp. Avenging wrath is probably one of the best overpowered cool downs in the game. stack that with holy avenger and guardian with the strength buff from guardian and besides warriors we do some of the best burst in the game with minimal setup time. (a couple of seconds for the guardian of kings strength buff to stack a bit). anyone with a brain (arena wise) would pick Fist of justice. Thats a 6 sec stun that doesn't break with a 30 sec cool down. in RBGs repentance can change the game (depending on the BG). i barely try and i top scoreboards in Random bgs all the time (ik that randoms don't matter). I know im only 1200 arena rating but that's with a partner in Contenders gear. if a paladin can carry contenders gear players to the 1000s than i don't see how they aren't good? i actually have soloed 2s matches before. And Ive only been playing my paladin since the last month of cata and i do good on him in bgs and arenas. i actually enjoy my paladin so much i decided to main him this expansion over my BM HUNTER that ive played since classic. so could someone please point out to me what it is that makes people think paladins are bad? Because i just don't see it.
The OP is full of crap. I guess you are OP at 192 RBGs. Try that at 2000.

We blow wings and good players will chain CC us

Mages and Warlocks own us from 30 yards away. No chance to stand toe to toe aginst a Warrior.

Blizzard has turned ret into the worst spec in the game

In Cata ratings got pretty inflated and average teams were fairly close to that, but MoP drove ratings down pretty hard and they're still down quite a bit lower compared to last season. On some battlegroups 2200 teams are currently gladiator-level, and you start seeing serious competition to even get out of the 1500's.
Note that even in Cata, with those fairly high ratings, I got Challenger (top 30%) without hitting 1600 rating. Rampage isn't the most competitive battlegroup, but it's far from the least, if only because it contains Illidan.
The OP is full of crap. I guess you are OP at 192 RBGs. Try that at 2000.

We blow wings and good players will chain CC us

Mages and Warlocks own us from 30 yards away. No chance to stand toe to toe aginst a Warrior.

Blizzard has turned ret into the worst spec in the game
Oh, bollocks.
Ret is fine.

There was this level 44 in Booty Bay, one shot him then bubblehearthed.

OP imo.
While still in the process of gearing back up to be able to survive longer, the CC is a pita, particularly when trying to line everything up for burst. Sure, things will get better somewhat with more survivability, but I'm starting to wish for more sustained for those times when I can actually stay on someone.
nobody listen to this 1200 noob. the rating speaks for itself.
Ret was viable start of mop in limited comps..
Now.. With the healing nerf, we copped it a tad raw..
We are far from the worst spec but I'd say we are middle to middle-low of the pack now..
Good rets will still be viable but probably more carried by FoTM classes.
I think the people that complain about Ret being weak must not have any alts. It's the only honest answer I can come up with here. Or that their alts are current FOTM. If I only played an Arms Warrior and a Ret Paladin, I'd feel like my Ret was doing just awful too.

I have a stable of characters, and while my Retribution isn't my strongest, I have to say it's my most solid and stable spec.

Damage out of cooldowns? My Beast Master knows about that. Pop cooldowns, hope for a kill, kite away and run like whoa if they don't die.

Poor survivability? My Discipline Priest called, he's got some words for you. Do you remember when they cut the strength of healing bubbles across the board to nerf other classes, and then cut straight healing? And then they lost PvP Power to their already meager assortment of DPS abilities. Kind of puts the loss of PvP Power to Ret heals in perspective.

My second favorite DPS is my Windwalker. Want to talk about poor survivability? You can talent into one (count it one) root break. This takes away your sprints and extra rolls if you go this way. Get rooted a second time? No real ranged to speak of. GG, Windwalker. Any Ret Paladin with Burden of Guilt should always win against a Windwalker, the new most kitable class in the game.

I can go on. These aren't complaints, mind you, they're just facts of playing those classes. My Destruction Warlock can chain together so many Chaos Bolts that it's just disgusting. Their finisher, which is almost as strong as a Chaos Bolt, gives them a free Chaos Bolt. In BGs that equates to: Berzerking Buff -> Chaos Bolt -> Finisher now that they're nearly dead -> Free Chaos Bolt next guy -> Finisher -> etc. His self-heals are enormous, and teleporting means never having to say you're sorry.

But when I want consistent gameplay, a class that's just good without being great- something I can rely on with decent damage and still pretty great heals? I sit on my Ret. The OP is right, we're doing just about fine right now. Some other classes could stand to be tweaked up or down, granted, but I feel like where we're at is the perfect baseline for everyone else to be scaled around.
12/06/2012 03:00 PMPosted by Lughnasadh
While still in the process of gearing back up to be able to survive longer, the CC is a pita, particularly when trying to line everything up for burst. Sure, things will get better somewhat with more survivability, but I'm starting to wish for more sustained for those times when I can actually stay on someone.
Try using Divine Purpose rather than Holy Avenger.
Im fine with Ret's damage actually, since were a damage/heal hybrid.... but blizz really needs to undo the healing nerf on Ret.... it really hurt our survival. If not revert the nerf totally at least they could bring it back halfway....it wasnt even meant for us but it hit us pretty hard. We could also use a "defensive stance" of some kind since all the other melees have this...even druids, the other damage/healing melee hybrid.....why must we be always one development cycle behind everyone else? Ive never understood this... first it was waiting forever to get a slow of some kind, now we need a defensive stance to be on the same level of the other melees...

But I still love Ret, I find it fun still, and it feels good when you do well as an underdog.... playing a challenging spec makes you a better player I think...... and I dont know what your complaining about Agincourt, whenever I see you in BGs you seem to do very well on your paladin....I saw you again the other night when I was on an alt.... and you did very well in that BG too...
Guy who is sitting at 1300 in 2's with a 192 rbg rating is going to tell me the current state of game balance.

Has to be a troll thread.

edit: To the actual point of balance though, I feel like we're okay, it's just that classes like warriors and mages are absolutely incredible.

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