sick and tired

Druid
Kinda sick and tired that boomkins are pretty much last in dps again. mages locks Dks rogues, all have multiple specs about the 50% threshold.

Yes they are "pure" dps specs, which the justification of "hybrid" and "pure" have long since been obliterated.

Why cant boomkin dps be in the top 10 for once? and we are not. If you say we are then you are running with crappy people. Yes there are the few elite boomkins out there that pull insane numbers. But on a hole. We are just a few form the bottom.

A guildies fire mage out dps and our damaged me. I am almost 20 ilvls higher then him. HOW?!?
"QQ you just suck" well no. I have been playing boomkin since BC I know the rotation. I know to maximize dot up time, hell I even know how to maximize my eclipses, save SS, get the most casts out of it as I can. Yet unless I have 3-4 mobs to keep dots rolling and SS procs. im bottom of dps.

But boomkins bring so much to the table.
Really?
Brez: restos, cats, bears, locks, DKs.
Mana: priests, shamans bears, cats, restos
buffs: stats: monk, paladin, bears cats restos
Haste: Spriests, shamans. (I will grant that this is probably the only thing thats really appealing about boomkins if you don't have a Spriest or shaman)

but really? crappy dps, no real utility to the raid, and crappy off heals now. Tranq is nice yes but really will not be a game changer.

just why continue to roll as a boomkin when feral (though I have never play cat once on my druid) brings the same buffs (crit instead of haste) and utility. and does about 3x the damage?

Just so sick of boomkins getting the !@#$ end of the stick.

write your nasty "You suck" and "Just leave then" posts but you know its true.
Kinda sick and tired that boomkins are pretty much last in dps again. mages locks Dks rogues, all have multiple specs about the 50% threshold.

Yes they are "pure" dps specs, which the justification of "hybrid" and "pure" have long since been obliterated.



If those 4 classes are at the top of the meters, with the exception of the DK, then what makes you think the hybrid vs pure argument has been "obliterated." Unless Im reading it wrong. I think Boomkins are doing respectable DPS in everything except challenge modes (another story)
Why do people post threads with a vague topic ???? WHY ? WHY ? WHY ?????
What kind of numbers are you putting out? I noticed you're not at the first breakpoint. Try playing around with that and see if it changes things for you.

Unless you have the 4pc tier 14, you want to hit that first haste break point of 5273. If you do have 4pc t14. Go crit.
Just because a couple specs are better off, you don't buff balance. You nerf the couple specs.
12/05/2012 11:06 PMPosted by Draakmis
Kinda sick and tired that boomkins are pretty much last in dps again. mages locks Dks rogues, all have multiple specs about the 50% threshold.


Logs bro, you have to provide some logs. We have a few achilles heels for sure and need a few tweaks but we aren't anywhere near as bad as you are making it out to be.
I hope you're not looking at simcraft patchwerk

What kind of numbers are you putting out? I noticed you're not at the first breakpoint. Try playing around with that and see if it changes things for you.

Unless you have the 4pc tier 14, you want to hit that first haste break point of 5273. If you do have 4pc t14. Go crit.


Most boomys opt for crit now
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7320082314
Here is a quote from the boomkin guy who writes the stickies here.

"My advice to people who are not in cutting edge guilds is try out different set ups and find what works for you. Haste break point v crit is still very close for *most* fights. It took me a few weeks to get used to the crit build, but now I feel comfortable with it. it's hard to say if I'm actually doing a lot better or not with it, since I've also been getting a lot of new gear along the way, but I know it helped a lot with Garalon and H Stone Guard."

Key part of that quote is to try what works for you, but he also says, "its hard to say if im actually doing better or not with it." Kind of seems like, you can't go wrong either way. However, in my opinion. The crit build is a proc based build, heavily relying on RNG to do well. With that being said, it is going to be really hard to say if it is better or not. You could have totally different numbers on the same fight. The haste build is a consistent type, where you see similar damage numbers in most fights.

I personally want to try the crit build out now, before 4pc, but I also think you cant go wrong sticking to the haste build until you get the 4pc where you go crit anyway.
This is why I love druids, a thread that could easily be justified as QQ and it gets a bunch of helpful replies. /hug a bear in game today :)
Here is a quote from the boomkin guy who writes the stickies here.

"My advice to people who are not in cutting edge guilds is try out different set ups and find what works for you. Haste break point v crit is still very close for *most* fights. It took me a few weeks to get used to the crit build, but now I feel comfortable with it. it's hard to say if I'm actually doing a lot better or not with it, since I've also been getting a lot of new gear along the way, but I know it helped a lot with Garalon and H Stone Guard."

Key part of that quote is to try what works for you, but he also says, "its hard to say if im actually doing better or not with it." Kind of seems like, you can't go wrong either way. However, in my opinion. The crit build is a proc based build, heavily relying on RNG to do well. With that being said, it is going to be really hard to say if it is better or not. You could have totally different numbers on the same fight. The haste build is a consistent type, where you see similar damage numbers in most fights.

I personally want to try the crit build out now, before 4pc, but I also think you cant go wrong sticking to the haste build until you get the 4pc where you go crit anyway.

/wave
That's meeee!

Just to clarify, the reason it's hard to tell whether or not I'm doing a lot better with it is because I now have much better gear than when I did when I was running haste. So, yes, naturally, my DPS has gone up since I switched from haste to crit, because in the mean time I also got upgrades.

The point is, even in sims, crit v haste is pretty close. That's for single target fights. And on multitarget fights (where everyone who knows what they're talking about already agrees that crit is better) crit is a no-brainer. So if they're close on one type of fight, and crit wins hands down on another type of fight, makes sense to at the very least give crit a shot and see if it works for you.

And that, my friends, is my math-free answer of the day.
Hmm. I wonder if this crit heavy strat might work better with my latency issues? The only real hiccup I could see would be instant starsurge procs, and I basically never lose one of those to lag- the window is nice and big. And crit would help with DoT uptime, which has been a problem on this connection. If it's fairly close under normal situations, it's probably at least worth a shot.
12/05/2012 11:06 PMPosted by Draakmis
Yes there are the few elite boomkins out there that pull insane numbers


basically this quote illustrates that it is a l2p issue. because these ppl have learned to do it properly.

also tier 12 "firelands" moonkins were one of the best classes in the game. wasnt that long ago relatively speaking.
Here is a quote from the boomkin guy who writes the stickies here.

"My advice to people who are not in cutting edge guilds is try out different set ups and find what works for you. Haste break point v crit is still very close for *most* fights. It took me a few weeks to get used to the crit build, but now I feel comfortable with it. it's hard to say if I'm actually doing a lot better or not with it, since I've also been getting a lot of new gear along the way, but I know it helped a lot with Garalon and H Stone Guard."

Key part of that quote is to try what works for you, but he also says, "its hard to say if im actually doing better or not with it." Kind of seems like, you can't go wrong either way. However, in my opinion. The crit build is a proc based build, heavily relying on RNG to do well. With that being said, it is going to be really hard to say if it is better or not. You could have totally different numbers on the same fight. The haste build is a consistent type, where you see similar damage numbers in most fights.

I personally want to try the crit build out now, before 4pc, but I also think you cant go wrong sticking to the haste build until you get the 4pc where you go crit anyway.

/wave
That's meeee!

Just to clarify, the reason it's hard to tell whether or not I'm doing a lot better with it is because I now have much better gear than when I did when I was running haste. So, yes, naturally, my DPS has gone up since I switched from haste to crit, because in the mean time I also got upgrades.

The point is, even in sims, crit v haste is pretty close. That's for single target fights. And on multitarget fights (where everyone who knows what they're talking about already agrees that crit is better) crit is a no-brainer. So if they're close on one type of fight, and crit wins hands down on another type of fight, makes sense to at the very least give crit a shot and see if it works for you.

And that, my friends, is my math-free answer of the day.


Thanks for the response. It's good to know, someone who clearly knows what they are talking about is responding.

Im also glad you cleared up your statement a little bit. I will be going with the crit build right now. However, is their a certain amount of haste you like to stick at? Or is it pretty much dump it all into crit?
I personally don't think boomkins are that bad right now. My raid group's dps consists of me, a frost dk, a fury warrior, a shadow priest, another boomkin, and a fire mage. On almost every fight me, and the frost dk are fighting for first on the meters. The other boomkin would be up there too, but she usually takes heart of the wild instead of Natures Vigil to help the healers.
Not trying to troll, But a DK is a pure dps class?
I'm not Eluial, but this is a direct quote from Zoomkinz in another thread about the crit vs haste argument.

Through numerous instances and levels of gear, I've seen crit stacking and ignoring the haste soft cap to out preform on almost every fight.

The reason you see me with the haste cap is because (not trying to gloat please) I have been clearing heroic raids for a while so my haste/crit rating is naturally higher at this point. I am reaching the haste cap not even reforging into it.

I still advocate and advise that at lower gear levels you should use int gemming and crit reforging.

Simcraft and other tools are great but, actually numbers and parses being looked at show it out preforming by alot.

At this point I feel I have so much more SP that I'm gemming even more crit so that I can get more Starsurges. Don't use me at 500 ilvl as a complete example on what you should be doing at say 470 ilvl. It's a lot of gear.

Also I'm not amazing with words so I tend not to post a lot. TOODLES


I'd say just get as much crit as possible.

also this quote came from http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7004698423#new-post

All the big name boomkins are there :D Cyous, Eluial, Targartou, and Zoomkinz.
The OP is actually right these boomkins posting on here as experts aren't anything special at all. I'm assuming they beat a bunch of people in their raids on dps so they say its fine but they have some bad people. I'm 6/6 heroic MSV 2/6 heroic HoF and I'm telling you boomkins are WEAK.

I go the crit build because of movement issues and it still doesn't overcome. Any movement at all really screws you up on a lot of fights and when it comes to heroics movement is essential. These people may tell me im bad but ill bet im better than most of them.

The truth is boomkins are too clunky to be as good as other classes. Let's take a shadow priest to compare a bit and to illustrate the problem (im a good shadow priest too).

With shadow your dots are not based on an eclipse mechanism proc. This meas your dots can just tick to completion without ever actually having to refresh them even though u do refresh them on the move. In comparison the dots a boomkin applys are completely reliant on being in an eclipse state so you cant refresh them when you are out of eclipse even if you have to move because it will make the dot MUCH weaker. On top of this you MUST refresh the corresponding dot when you hit an eclipse stage or you once again lose dps because that dot ticks as if you werent in eclipse. This makes moonfire and sunfire clunky so it is difficult to do ANYTHING while on the move without messing things up.

With shadow you get mind flay which is also movement friendly. If you must move during mind flay or cast a better spell (shadow word insanity), it isnt so bad because part of the mind flay has done some damage and it worked well even if you didnt complete the cast. With moonkin the cast times are VERY long especially for starfire so if you have to move you dont get any damage out of it. Wrath is weak even in eclipse to the point of hoping to get out of the sun phase asap and once again if you have to move it messes it up.

Starfall is clunky. When working on heroic windlord i really dont even get to use this spell because ill break CC. That makes my dmg worse. Mushrooms take too long to put down and only find use on the initiial pulls AND EVEN THEN their proximity in which they hit things is bad in comparison to most other AEs. The channeled hurricane is only useful in solar eclipse and even then its bad because if the mobs move you gotta start over again and it EAT MANA like no ones buisiness so u gotta get to a new eclipse fast. However you cant because if you do yer AE dmg sucks. A shadow priests mind flay even works better because it is less clunky.

Starsurge is the only good thing you have and it's top dmg is with 3 targets that you can dot up. more than that and it either procs more than you can use it or yer too busy doting. So this means the fight where you are OK is protectors and even then most of your damage is likely superficial because you are starfalling and doting things that go back to 100% health when you kill 1 guy.
The OP is actually right these boomkins posting on here as experts aren't anything special at all. I'm assuming they beat a bunch of people in their raids on dps so they say its fine but they have some bad people. I'm 6/6 heroic MSV 2/6 heroic HoF and I'm telling you boomkins are WEAK.

I go the crit build because of movement issues and it still doesn't overcome. Any movement at all really screws you up on a lot of fights and when it comes to heroics movement is essential. These people may tell me im bad but ill bet im better than most of them.

The truth is boomkins are too clunky to be as good as other classes. Let's take a shadow priest to compare a bit and to illustrate the problem (im a good shadow priest too).

...


To be completely honest you should look at Eluial's wonderful moonkin sticky it'll help you out greatly. For one your gemming is not very good, and because your gemming is wrong your reforging is screwed up. There are a lot of ways you could itemize your toon better that would greatly increase your dps.
Im also glad you cleared up your statement a little bit. I will be going with the crit build right now. However, is their a certain amount of haste you like to stick at? Or is it pretty much dump it all into crit?

Pretty much all crit. There's no point being half-hearted about it.

12/06/2012 01:02 PMPosted by Dalorell
The OP is actually right these boomkins posting on here as experts aren't anything special at all. I'm assuming they beat a bunch of people in their raids on dps so they say its fine but they have some bad people. I'm 6/6 heroic MSV 2/6 heroic HoF and I'm telling you boomkins are WEAK.

You don't have to take my word for it. You're more progressed than I am, which clearly means you must know what you're talking about. But people more progressed than you (and therefore by your logic, more knowledgeable than you are) are saying Moonkin is fine.

But none of that is to say that moonkin is perfect. Of course we have problems, and you highlighted some of the main ones (weak, clunky aoe and poor movement dps). It would be great to get those fixed. But we're very competitive. We're not sitting at the top of the meters all the time, but that will come in later tiers. But just because we're at the middle of the pack right now, it doesn't mean we should all throw down our towels and go home.

We're fine. Not great, but fine.
@ Dalorell
So why are you still boomkin? If the spec is in as bad of a shape as you say it is, then why not just go feral or roll another range class? Are you showing up last on the damage done? While dots may feel clunky, I firmly believe we have no right to be at the top of the meters and to expect so would be foolish.

Would like to check through some of your logs. Not to critique, but just to see where you are ending up, to have so much negativity about the boomkin spec.

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