Please no stat squish

General Discussion
I like seeing my character get stronger each expansion.

I like going back to old content stronger than before, it makes soloing easier and getting transmog sets easier, especially when it's hard to find a group of people
Is Blizz talking about doing a stat squish?
12/06/2012 10:54 AMPosted by Lmcm
Is Blizz talking about doing a stat squish?


It was discussed as a possibility going into MoP.

You'll still be able to go back to old content and crush it.

I'm in favor of the stat squish. You'll be just as powerful as now, but the numbers we see representing our power are smaller. I do worry about the feeling of power, though (Blizz said they tried it internally and the devs said it felt odd).

I think we're going to start getting into numbers that are large enough they make a quick glance at stats to compare near impossible. Consider that 10% of my health now is more than I had at 80, the way things are scaling now produces a pretty steep curve.
I think Luthar was referring to this old blog article from Nov. 4, 2011.

Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pandaria

It was considered when Mists of Pandaria was in-development but, our developers decided the time wasn't right for that. The [Battleplate of TRULY Ludicrous Numerical Superority] looks like all kinds of awesome.
If they did do this in the future it will not make NPC's in old content more powerful. The "Squish" would likely cover the game globally rather than just player characters as many seem to think. So you would still be able to go into MC for example and kill everything in 30 minutes.

Edited to fix bad typing skillz.
I think Luthar was referring to this old blog article from Nov. 4, 2011.

[url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585"]Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pandaria[/url]

It was considered when Mists of Pandaria was in-development but, our developers decided the time wasn't right for that. The [Battleplate of TRULY Ludicrous Numerical Superority] looks like all kinds of awesome.


Instead of a squash, or infinite numbers, please consider lowering the gear gap from tier to tier, and expansion to expansion.

Vanilla Ending Ilvl-90
BC Beginning Ilvl-110
BC Ending Ilvl-146
Wrath Beginning Ilvl-200
Wrath Ending Ilvl-284
Cata Beginning Ilvl-359 *not counting ZA/ZG 353 because they were after initial release
Cata Ending Ilvl-416
Mists Beginning-476

It seems that the jumps are getting more and more significant. I really enjoyed in Burning Crusade that I was able to obtain a few things from Naxx 40 that would still be an upgrade early on. It adds an extra aspect and incentive to doing the older instances.
I think Luthar was referring to this old blog article from Nov. 4, 2011.

[url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585"]Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pandaria[/url]

It was considered when Mists of Pandaria was in-development but, our developers decided the time wasn't right for that. The [Battleplate of TRULY Ludicrous Numerical Superority] looks like all kinds of awesome.


Instead of a squash, or infinite numbers, please consider lowering the gear gap from tier to tier, and expansion to expansion.

Vanilla Ending Ilvl-90
BC Beginning Ilvl-110
BC Ending Ilvl-146
Wrath Beginning Ilvl-200
Wrath Ending Ilvl-284
Cata Beginning Ilvl-359 *not counting ZA/ZG 353 because they were after initial release
Cata Ending Ilvl-416
Mists Beginning-476

It seems that the jumps are getting more and more significant. I really enjoyed in Burning Crusade that I was able to obtain a few things from Naxx 40 that would still be an upgrade early on. It adds an extra aspect and incentive to doing the older instances.


If you read the article above about the great item squish, it explains why its necessary for the large gaps in ilvl.

I'm not going to go over all of the reasons, because you can easily go read it but it was definitely justified.


Instead of a squash, or infinite numbers, please consider lowering the gear gap from tier to tier, and expansion to expansion.

Vanilla Ending Ilvl-90
BC Beginning Ilvl-110
BC Ending Ilvl-146
Wrath Beginning Ilvl-200
Wrath Ending Ilvl-284
Cata Beginning Ilvl-359 *not counting ZA/ZG 353 because they were after initial release
Cata Ending Ilvl-416
Mists Beginning-476

It seems that the jumps are getting more and more significant. I really enjoyed in Burning Crusade that I was able to obtain a few things from Naxx 40 that would still be an upgrade early on. It adds an extra aspect and incentive to doing the older instances.


If you read the article above about the great item squish, it explains why its necessary for the large gaps in ilvl.

I'm not going to go over all of the reasons, because you can easily go read it but it was definitely justified.


I understand the reasoning, I just don't agree with it.
I think if the expansion following MoP doesn't have a stat squish or some other major change to alleviate power inflation (adding commas to numbers doesn't count), at least the PvP side of WoW is going to get painful to play.

Currently, I think a lot of the issue with burst damage (and sometimes healing) in PvP has to do with the fact that level 90 characters are almost 3 times more powerful than we were at the end of Cataclysm. Since stats and the like are so large, there's a large margin for numbers to swing.
I was just thinking about this the other day. I hope we get a squish next xpac because these numbers are pretty ridiculous.
I don't remember where i heard it but blizzard said they have the code for the Item squish all set up and working and ready for deployment. They are just waiting until there is more community support for an item squish. i think by the end of the expansion there will be a lot of people asking for it. I like the idea of an item squish personally.
There is a simple solution - if people's computers can't handle massive numbers, they should go out and upgrade them.

Gamers already do that all the time - they are the guys who always run the latest and greatest anyway.

Everyone else who is not a real gamer should go back to playing Farmville, and leave the world of real gamers to real gamers.
What people don't realize is that with the pre-MoP squish plan, NPCs in the old world WOULD be more powerful in comparison to the players at max level. They said in the pre-MOP plan that level 85 mobs would be the same relative power vs players as they were before the squish, but if you look at the charts and examples they gave, the new linear power curve would mean that a level 60 mob would be quite a bit more powerful vs a level 85 player (let alone level 70 and 80 mobs, who would be much closer in power to level 85 mobs).

I don't mind an item squish at all, but it needs to be done right. Just a numbers squish, not a "power" squish. If the squish means it's less practical to go back and solo old content, which lots of people love to do, then that's just a bad idea.

I don't want to have to spam "LF24 more for BT transmog run" for 6 hours before being able to go mess around in old content. Nor would that be at all fair to new players who haven't been able to go back and solo the old stuff yet to get what they want when we've been able to do it alone for years.
i like the numbers. i say bring on the big ones. maybe add the 1.5m thing if people whine
The DPS for leveling through initial raid tier numbers is some like 50K at 85, 20K at 86, 40K at around iLvl 450 and 100K-ish when in full raiding gear.

Initially a 100% increase from end of game DPS numbers of the Previous expansion in the opening tier.
Which is a 400-500% increase over the numbers you saw while leveling and getting hit with the new stat calculations. in about 50ish iLevels.

THAT IS COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS.

Given that progression by the time we hit end of MoP iLevels which I would expect to be somewhere around iLvl 600 if they are maxing at about 42ish over previous teirs heroic gear as was done previously about 550-560 if they stager the LFR -> Heroic gear so that LFR each tier is at Normal modes iLvl and Normal is at Heroic. It is a crap shoot at the moment.

So lets say about 100% increase per 50 or iLevel we are then looking about 300K dps by the end of the MoP expansion.

tBC : 2000 - 3000 DPS
Wrath: 10000 - 12000 DPS
Cata : 45000 - 60000 DPS
MoP : 100000 - ??? (300000)

So while MoP had the lowest overall increase compared to previous expansion the real dangers it as DPS goes up based off of stat ratings then Gear will continue to Trump Skill more and more.

The great Item Implosion of iLevel is needed, it was needed for MoP, hell it was needed for Cata.
PLEASE SQUISH MY STATS!

Seriously, a stats squish would really help bring PVP servers back to life. Sure, a level 85 should have an advantage over an 83, etc, however the stat squish based on the 3rd example in GC's post shows that the advantage would be reduced with Ilvl's more streamlined.
If they did do this in the future it will not make NPC's in old content more powerful. The "Squish" would likely cover the game globally rather than just player characters as many seem to think. So you would still be able to go into MC for example and kill everything in 30 minutes.

Edited to fix bad typing skillz.


All power is relative.

We crush MC now because we are as powerful as many hundreds of level 60s.

If we get squished to be as powerful as, say, two level 60s, MC crushes us instead.

If you say we should remain hundreds of times more powerful than a level 60, but have 1000 health, how much health does a level 60 have? 3 health or something?
Item squish is a necessity. I just modified MSBT today so I see figures in k, e.g. 37k hits. Basically, I have used an addon to use the option of "mega-damage" Blizzard already presented.
they redid all of vanilla and boom there goes cataclysm end game...

so they redo all the stats for all bosses/items/npcs in game what do you think is gonna happen to that expansion pack?

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