BUFF MOONKINS

Druid
In a few BGs I did recently, I was critting for ~100k without CDs, via Starsurge. With CDs, the 10v10 fight in mid was over 10sec after I popped everyone (20sec fight total). Very few people have my level of gear in PvP, but I'd like to think the lack of PvP Power is balanced with the massive SP pool. For my friends whom play Moonkin, they are doing the exact same thing in BGs in full PvP gear. Sample size comes into question, but considering personal experience weighed against other's experience, Moonkin is fine™


Yep, this is true. 100k starsurge crits without any cds up is pretty common once you're at a decent enough gear level. If you often see less, it's likely because the people you're using it on have some sort of defensive cd up. With cds, skull banner, berserker, Owlkin Frenzy, etc all up, you are going to see some ridiculous numbers. The highest starsurge crit I've seen in an rbg was 196k on this enhance shaman (and this guy had at least half malev gear when I armoried him later). It was also likely the fastest I'd ever reduced a someone at level cap from 100 to 0% hp in an organised pvp setting, because that was followed with another 188k starsurge. So dead shammy in all of 2 seconds. All in all, one of the more memorable pvp experiences I've had so far.

Although I must agree that damage outside CDs is pathetic. Dots are no where near as strong as they were in Cata, and most of the rest of your damage will come from Starsurge. On damage boards you are going to look very impressive, although in reality a good portion of the damage from your dots is quickly going to be swatted away by any random hot, without costing enemy healers much =/ Hopefully with the 30% healing nerf spread pressure is going to mean more than it does now.
Perhaps it's true that it did take longer than 2 seconds to set up, but it just goes to show what we're capable of once a few dots are up and running. The dots I put up to get me those Starsurges continued to tick and kill, and I didn't stop the rampage just after the shammy :P
12/14/2012 10:59 AMPosted by Jubz
Whereas other classes actually do kill you in 3 seconds lol

Everyone has ramp-up time. Moonkin ramp-up time can be anywhere from 3sec to 15sec.

Then again, those classes got seriously nerfed recently, yet Moonkin is capable of far greater damage output than all of those classes. Demonology warlock has a fairly giant ramp-up time compared to Moonkin, and it was nerfed. Spend 4 GCDs and your Cooldowns are running with 3 targets DOT'd. Spend the next 2-5sec imploding your targets.
yo guys but worlocks have so mant defencive cds there pets the 50% damage reduction the absorb i think we could get back thorns and that would help us with our melea damage buecuse i can get globaled and i have 61% res
Spend 4 GCDs and your Cooldowns are running with 3 targets DOT'd. Spend the next 2-5sec imploding your targets.


just kidding, *insert class here* targeted you and you got globaled because of our terrible defensive cooldowns/self healing
Cyous loves doing the theorycrafting and has stellar output in pve. He constantly confuses great pve play that very few balance druid players can pull off with us being great in pvp. Several threads have demonstrated this.

We need defensive cooldowns. We need a ranged stun. We need our offheals to not be nerfed or compensated for in some way.


Well said. I've played Moonkin since TBC and honestly nothing has ever changed. Things change a tad here and there every now and again, but after seeing the state of Moonkins for years now, I'm convinced we are right where Blizz wants us to be.

If you play a Moonkin, get in an active raiding guild. That's where you belong and that's the ONLY place you're going to shine in this game. It's been that way for a long time folks.
12/15/2012 07:49 AMPosted by Nadenardor
yo guys but worlocks have so mant defencive cds there pets the 50% damage reduction the absorb i think we could get back thorns and that would help us with our melea damage buecuse i can get globaled and i have 61% res


I remember when Rogues were too dumb to not kill themselves on our thorns right before Cata came out. How long did that last?

It's okay for certain classes to destroy people for YEARS, but god forbid a Rogue die to thorns and some dots. That lasted for about 2 weeks.
The "Learn to Play" argument isn't really viable here. If a hunter was QQ'ing and asking for a buff, I would say "Quit being bad and L2P." However, it's obvious that boomkins are on the weak side when it comes to overall defensives and sustained damage. Sure, you can stack PvP Power and melt face with our 3 minute cooldowns and pump out some decent damage when not blowing CDs, but due to our "squishy-ness", one could certainly argue that stacking some PvP Resilience is necessary. Overall, I can't really complain about much other than the fact that our overall ability to soak damage needs a bit of a buff, ESPECIALLY since they nerfed our hybrid healing. By the way, aside from RBGs and 5's (and to a lesser extent 3's), boomkins are not as viable as other classes in arenas (mostly 2's), primarily due to, again, their "squishy-ness", easily CC'able burst (silence, stun, etc.), and their lower-than-average sustained damage/long cast times.

I remember when Rogues were too dumb to not kill themselves on our thorns right before Cata came out. How long did that last?

It's okay for certain classes to destroy people for YEARS, but god forbid a Rogue die to thorns and some dots. That lasted for about 2 weeks.


I think part of the problem stemmed from the ease of use of thorns When glyphed we could keep it up almost indefinitely (5 second widow where it was down?). Instead of changing it to a proper CD length (2 mins?), they reduced the damage output to the point where it, again, became nigh useless.


Our movement dps for the most part is horrible outside of cooldowns.


I think someone somewhere did some parses (can't get any more vague, heh?) and found moonkin movement DPS to be one of the lowest, relying soly on SS procs and magic from their lucky charms. so any fight, be it PVE or PVP, where a moonkin needs to stop casting at any point, our DPS takes a bigger hit than the average. They tried to fix that, by having two dots with instant damage that proc SS, but until you get 40% crit or more, or they up the SS proc percentage, there just isn't enough procs to go around.
12/14/2012 09:59 AMPosted by Jubz

Unfortunately, it's the PVE'ers who do all the work and the PVP'ers are the ones complaining. Rather than kick and scream, "I can't play well enough, so it needs to be fixed," learn to game your class mechanics like every other class does. There must be a good reason why Moonkins are viable in Arena and RBGs and Raids and general questing. Learn and find out why.


I can assure you that moonkin is not very viable in RBG's... and please give me a link of a top arena team with a moonkin in it.... kthx.

*edit*

it IS the class and NOT the players right now that prevents us from being viable.


Like I said before, if I didn't run an RBG group, I wouldn't get into one. I know, I've tried to pug into a few others. They don't want moonkins. Balance druids are just too damn squishy. It's a free HK for the other team, then all of a sudden, your squad is down one. There's a ripple effect.

I'm very entertained about the comment -- if you want a ranged stun, play a class with one... Seriously, how would I have known that? I rolled a hunter first, hated the pet, deleted him at 80 and started this guy. I have a spriest, shammy and mage at 85 or higher and it feels while leveling my mage just crushes stuff that kept me running for my life on my druid.

Give us defenses please!
Boomkin is more than okay right now, if anything I think we need our CD stacking nerfed and a buff to sustained damage. We are currently live lords in PvP compared to alot of other classes. Our main problem is that other classes have instant AoE CC and team survivability cooldowns like shadow priests, Life swap/fear comes to mind.
Like I said before, if I didn't run an RBG group, I wouldn't get into one. I know, I've tried to pug into a few others. They don't want moonkins


Balance is pretty squishy, but I haven't came across many RBG teams that don't at least have 1 moonkin. Granted, we really aren't brought for damage or killing power but for CC. A well timed and placed solar beam is godly and can wipe teams.

The problems I have with moonkins in PvP are:
Long cast times: Our DoTs don't do crap anymore so we rely on hard casted spells, and even getting those casted spells off the damage isn't great. If I get off a 2.5 second cast in lunar eclipse I'd like it to hit more than 45-50k. If a warlock is rewarded for a 3 second cast with 100k+ numbers why doesn't starfire hit that hard?

Too RNG based: our primary source of damage are our two DoTs and starsurge procs. When the procs line up we do stupid amounts of burst. If we don't get procs we are complete garbage. That whole mechanic needs tweaking

Crappy damage outside of eclipse: doesn't need an explination

We need shorter cast times, some kind of interrupt protection and/or casting while moving. Also need less RNG associated with our burst. The whole eclipse mechanic, while interesting, doesn't fit into PvP very well.
12/21/2012 01:50 PMPosted by Reflex
Boomkin is more than okay right now, if anything I think we need our CD stacking nerfed and a buff to sustained damage. We are currently live lords in PvP compared to alot of other classes. Our main problem is that other classes have instant AoE CC and team survivability cooldowns like shadow priests, Life swap/fear comes to mind.


this, we do way too much damage with cooldowns popped and not enough out of them. give us back our dot damage/healing please
12/08/2012 11:53 AMPosted by Lørdragåntis
Just eliminate all Boomkins, and re-distribute their abilities among the other 3 Druid specs.

And just how would that work?
Moonkins do not need a buff.

They just need to be made slightly easier to play.


They are easy to play. There damage blows and eclipse is clunky for PvP. That's the issue with the spec, not the difficulty of it.
So I just started playing MoP a few days ago after a long break from the game and I'm honestly flabbergasted that Balance Druids are STILL suffering this much in PvP and from what I read PvE as well now.

I was really hoping after all this time and a full beta of MoP that Balance could finally hold their own with the best of them in PvP. I'm also surprised that Moonkin hasn't gotten a model update yet, along with the player models. I mean, what has been going on with the art department?

Anyway, I digress. One of the ideas I had floating in my head while reading this thread is changing Eclipse so that you're always in one and completely removing the out of eclipse bits. Like you'd have a full bar of being in a Solar Eclipse, then once you hit Lunar the whole bar would change into it's Lunar Eclipse state (I hope I'm explaining this correctly). This way we'll never be outside of an Eclipse leaving us completely and utterly gimped and will still force us to bounce between Wrath and Starfire like Eclipse was meant to do in the first place.

Now I haven't really thought it 100% through and I'm still getting used to everything again, so let me know what you think and tell me if there are any significant design flaws that just couldn't be worked around.
Try the glyph of stars. It's great in pvp when mages try to poly you and shammies try to hex you! :)

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum